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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#321

Post by globular-toast »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

> - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school

When I went to school the bus turned up every single day without fail. We've learnt to accept less because you can just call a taxi.

> - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time

We had public payphones that we could use. We've learnt to accept less because everyone has a mobile phone.

> - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it

I remembered to bring what I needed every day or I suffered the consequences. I soon learnt. We've become complacent because you can just get it delivered using your phone.

All in all I don't really see how it's a positive, but it certainly seems to have considerable negatives.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#322

Post by jvvw »

dweekly wrote: post #229
RHSeeger wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

Those are good reasons to have a smart watch with cellular capabilities. They are not good reasons to have a phone at school. In terms of QOL: there is a meaningful body of research about the impact of giving a teenage girl access to a phone on their quality of life. https://adc.bmj.com/content/109/7/576 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245195882...

The schools here I have experience with are stricter about smart watches than phones - you can get everybody to turn their phone off all day or keep it in a locker, but it's much harder with watches.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#323

Post by doublerabbit »

closewith wrote: post #251
doublerabbit wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I put my view on to reject PR and they go to the next best person to approve. Blag the senior with bullshite of: "I will fix this in the next revision, it works for now" and don't.

I'm not to engage further as you're only ever going to repeat yourself in more obnoxious ways, but I will say that if you treat people in real life the way you comment here, you will only ever be tolerated at best. Never respected and never liked. Even the people you consider peers will abhor that you think and speak like this about people.

You don't say. The feelings mutual, your attitude is something far from desirable.

Looking at your past comments: "Perhaps self-reflection is in order", I agree. You're very hostile, angry? You should look in to that.

I wish you the best in life, I truly do, you have some growing up to do.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#324

Post by barbazoo »

constantcrying wrote: post #6
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

Is that the aim of schools? It certainly did not appear to me that way, here in Germany. There was a lot of time spend sitting in a room and "learning", yet I basically learned nothing. For the other things you described I do not think they were ever considered. All around school was a giant waste of time.

“I basically learned nothing at school” is such a silly obviously wrong thing to say.

Really doesn’t help you make a point.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#325

Post by noisy_boy »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #240
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #138

I deplore the fact that schools need to resort to banning phones. When I was younger I imagined a world in which computing devices would be a boon to (young) people everywhere. But many apps appear to be detrimental to people's mental health, both young and old. Possibly this can be changed. Maybe separate app stores are a solution (think f-droid)? Or maybe we need to start looking a lot harder at apps that might act…

I think what Finland did is the right take because these are devices which kids do not need. They can call their parents if required from the main office. This is fantastic and once again shows why Finland is a pioneer in childhood education and why Americans and other countries are so far behind.

> why Americans and other countries are so far behind.

Americans sure, but not all other countries e.g. in Singapore, many schools make the students put their smartphones in lockers and don't allow access at all during school hours. In case of emergency, they can call from the Main/General office.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#326

Post by RHSeeger »

dfxm12 wrote: post #259
RHSeeger wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

The first two aren't in school. The last doesn't actually require a cell phone. It's worth noting, according to the article, the law gives school officials leeway to allow kids to use their phones in some circumstances. So, the law doesn't stop any of the use cases you've listed.

The first two require she bring her phone to school with her. Could they collect every phone before school and hand them out after? Sure.. but that's a nightmare.

The last one doesn't require a cell phone, since the school has phone lines. But it's certainly more convenient to let her use her own phone than have 20 kids in line at the office every morning calling their parents.

> It's worth noting, according to the article, the law gives school officials leeway to allow kids to use their phones in some circumstances. So, the law doesn't stop any of the use cases you've listed.

Somewhat my bad.. but I was responding to thread's content and title.

- The article says "[Finland approved] a law that restricts the use of mobile devices by pupils at primary and secondary schools"

- The title of the thread says "bans smartphones in schools".. which is not at ALL what they did; they banned _use_ of smartphones in schools _without permission_.

And what I said was that my daughter brings her phone to school; she doesn't use it there unless there's a good reason (like I noted).

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#327

Post by RHSeeger »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #312
RHSeeger wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

All problems you listed were solved differently before the age of smartphones.

ALL problems were solved differently before the age of smartphones. Breaking down on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere and having to walk miles to find some way to ask for help was a damned nightmare; especially for a single female.

Lots of problems are solved in MUCH better ways now that we have smartphones. It's not about "can we do it", it's about "can we do it better / easier".

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#328

Post by zelphirkalt »

bluGill wrote: post #223
ecshafer wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those reasons can be solved with her using a public phone. My school growing up had a phone in the hallway by the main office for those reasons.

No they cannot. My school had multiple doors that could not see each other - more than once my parents were waiting for me at a different door from the one I was standing at waiting for them. We did find each other, but only after a lot of searching - sometimes we even passed each other as we both switched doors to wait at. Okay, it did work out, but not nearly as well as a simple cell phone. Smart phones add additio…

To me it seems such a dystopian thing to inflict upon ones kids. All day long being monitored by a spyware spreading company, just for some small convenience and probable impacting their ability to clearly communicate where they are or will be waiting. Maybe this kind of thing is the reason why so many people are unable to make an appointment and stick to the terms agreed upon when making the appointment.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#329

Post by zelphirkalt »

bluGill wrote: post #195
probably_wrong wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those problems can be solved without smartphones, as evidenced by literally every previous generation dealing with them. If anything, my grumpy self would argue that not having means to contact my parents if I forgot something ensured that I paid more attention the night before to what I had to pack. But I'm open to compromise: let's give children bring dumb phones that can only call and text.

Sure. I remember standing in line at the phone for 10 minutes as a kid waiting for my turn to call my parents when my activity was done. Cell phones are better. Smart phones would mean I could use the time waiting for something. Smart phones when class is in session is a distraction and should be banned. However outside of class they are helpful.

10 minutes, that you could use socializing with other students/pupils. Well, I can see the problem, we cannot possibly inflict this upon our children.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#330

Post by RHSeeger »

ethbr1 wrote: post #204
ecshafer wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those reasons can be solved with her using a public phone. My school growing up had a phone in the hallway by the main office for those reasons.

As part of the last generation to grow up without phones in (early) school, this. The endless rationalizing of why kids need to have phones at every moment rings hollow... Because grade school kids actually did just fine without them. Things functioned, people got where they needed to get, emergencies were handled, etc. Especially with pre- and post-school access, we're balancing a minimum of in-school utility agains…

> The endless rationalizing of why kids need to have phones

Once again, for the people not paying attention. It's not about _need_. It's about quality of life. It's about easier, faster, better, safer.

Are there negatives to having cell phones? Sure. That's true for adults, too. And the benefits of having a cell phone need to be weighed against those negatives.

But saying "you don't _need_ a cell phone" is a straw man argument. Because nobody (that I see) says it's needed; they said it's worth it.

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