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Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

ca.finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#321

Post by fc417fc802 »

mdhb wrote: post #169
Yeul wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't Americans always going on about free speech?

Just never in a logically consistent manner.

Sure it is. Lots of us also go on about private property rights and freedom of association. Apple is restricting the behavior of entities doing business through them on a platform they own. The logic is that you remain free to speak - elsewhere. Meanwhile Apple remains free not to do business with you if you can't or won't accept their terms.

(Well really the legal argument is that Apple isn't the government and so the first amendment doesn't bind their policies but there's an ideological aspect in addition to the legal one.)

The issue missed by such an analysis is the outsized impact the megacorp has. Without strong competition (ie not a duopoly or even an oligopoly) regulation is required to protect consumers against practices that otherwise would be financially discouraged.

There are also a few other blindspots people here tend to have regarding regulation. In particular that sometimes detrimental behaviors exist that are perversely incentivized rather than discouraged by the market despite being obviously worse for consumers. A lot of people here seem to conveniently forget that such things are even within the realm of possibility.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#322

Post by walkingthisquai »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #238

US officials and businessmen keep on repeating the same thing: > The European Commission is attempting to handicap successful American businesses while allowing Chinese and European companies to operate under different standards. But this is wildly untrue. The EU isn't hand-picking individual organisations and fining them because they're American, they're fining them because they're in breach of existing legislation.…

Well... Though I agree with you in principle, the DMA does target specific gatekeeper companies and the criteria for these were set conveniently to ensure no EU company is regulated by it. So I can see their point a little

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#323

Post by madeofpalk »

Yeul wrote: post #161
madeofpalk wrote: post #11

> Under the DMA, app developers distributing their apps via Apple's App Store should be able to inform customers, free of charge, of alternative offers outside the App Store, steer them to those offers and allow them to make purchases. To me, this is the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after. It is unfair that Apple restricts Netflix from telling it's users that they can sign up and pay for Netlifx…

Aren't Americans always going on about free speech?

If you extend "speech" to "any kind of action an individual or company can do", then no. There's plenty of laws regulations that restrict what you can do in USA.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#324

Post by LunaSea »

fidotron wrote: post #308
LunaSea wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They absolutely do, you just like to dismiss it as being about status. No, they don't. I just gave you three counter examples. Why is it that iPhone users prefer GMail over iCloud Mail? Source: https://www.statista.com/chart/34197/share-of-us-respondents... > The status came because of their association with business because they provided secure messaging. Users have no understanding of security. High status or not…

> Users have no understanding of security. High status or not. Upper middle class americans absolutely do, or they don't stay that way for very long. The US has a culture of a lot more personal responsibility, and a lot less trust of the government to handle it. > Why is it that iPhone users prefer GMail over iCloud Mail? They already had it from before people realized it was a bait and switch. Work users will almost…

> They already had it from before people realized it was a bait and switch.

So you mean to say that they made the same mistake that the supposed European users did with the app stores?

> Upper middle class americans absolutely do, or they don't stay that way for very long.

Yet they are on the same very public and absolutely no private or secure social networks (Facebook, TikTok, Instagram) as the rest of the world?

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#325

Post by throwaway2037 »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #238

US officials and businessmen keep on repeating the same thing: > The European Commission is attempting to handicap successful American businesses while allowing Chinese and European companies to operate under different standards. But this is wildly untrue. The EU isn't hand-picking individual organisations and fining them because they're American, they're fining them because they're in breach of existing legislation.…

I think you make many good points. Slight tangent: Why isn't EU more concerned about TikTok? While it is very difficult to prove, various studies have demonstrated that TikTok pushes more content favoring the Chinese Government (CCP).

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#326

Post by Ukv »

dmitrygr wrote: post #293
popol12 wrote: post #22

I hope this will make Apple finally comply with EU law and allow app side loading on iOS. Real side loading, not the joke they implemented since iOS 17.

Generally, as a society, we hold that a contract cannot be modified without both parties’ agreement. When you bought that phone, it was with the completely clear, overt, and in no way uncertain understanding that it does specifically X Y Z, and does not do A B C. Now, without additional payment to the counterparty, you’re demanding your phone do A B C. What am I missing? According to accepted understandings of contra…

There's a range of anti-competitive behavior which can subvert that ideal, and as such there's regulation aimed to prevent it. Apple used to forbid apps from telling users about Apple's 30% cut or cheaper places to buy the app, for instance, hindering users from making an informed choice.

Many of the policies in question are intentionally not publicized to end-users, often requiring first paying to be part of the developer program before you can even see what you need to agree to to publish an app.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#327

Post by eesmith »

fp64 wrote: post #204
tossandthrow wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big German newspapers do not need to comply under DMA. The EU focusses, rightfully, on EU macro dynamics with these laws, not how smaller outlets work. This is very much reasonable. When a platform is big, it has bigger impact, but also bigger budgets to hire legal help and bigger budgets to stay compliant. This is well established in accounting where there exists different rules depending on size (in many jurisdicti…

What’s another example of different rules depending on size? “Content Moderation” I think? Anything outside the DMA? I think small companies get some exceptions for documentation requirements?

In the US, some laws specifically exclude small companies. For example, the Equal Employment Opportunity Act of 1972 requires 15 employees, and the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 requires 4 employees.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#328

Post by radlad »

jader201 wrote: post #229
madeofpalk wrote: post #11

> Under the DMA, app developers distributing their apps via Apple's App Store should be able to inform customers, free of charge, of alternative offers outside the App Store, steer them to those offers and allow them to make purchases. To me, this is the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after. It is unfair that Apple restricts Netflix from telling it's users that they can sign up and pay for Netlifx…

> It's telling that Gruber is pretty staunchly against EU/DMA interferance in Apple, and broadly thinks they're wrong. But this is the one thing he agree on I’ve stopped seeing Gruber as any sort of authority on Apple for a while now. He’s just a single guy with an opinion like everyone else, and it’s, more times than not, clearly biased in favor of Apple. Some of his analysis of objective data is informative, but wh…

I agree with your overall comment, but I think this is basically what OP was getting at: it's not surprising that Gruber is against EU/DMA interference, yet even he has issues with this particular point.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#329

Post by fc417fc802 »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #238

US officials and businessmen keep on repeating the same thing: > The European Commission is attempting to handicap successful American businesses while allowing Chinese and European companies to operate under different standards. But this is wildly untrue. The EU isn't hand-picking individual organisations and fining them because they're American, they're fining them because they're in breach of existing legislation.…

Agreed with your first point. Regarding TikTok though the argument was never (AFAIK) that they were actively breaking the law but rather that their structure and ownership posed a threat to US interests. That's pretty reasonable and largely mirrors China's stance against the US.

If anything the surprising thing is how lenient western governments tend to be towards foreign corporations. They seem to prioritize free trade above all else.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#330

Post by wizzwizz4 »

skyyler wrote: post #312
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #238

US officials and businessmen keep on repeating the same thing: > The European Commission is attempting to handicap successful American businesses while allowing Chinese and European companies to operate under different standards. But this is wildly untrue. The EU isn't hand-picking individual organisations and fining them because they're American, they're fining them because they're in breach of existing legislation.…

>So we see a dissonance between what the media says (and many people believe) and what's really happening. This thing right here terrifies me. The entertainment-information media oligopoly has a tight grasp on public conversations. It feels like a hydra that can't be defeated.

It can be defeated by talking to people about things. If you are known to be an expert in topic X, and you are saying something different to what the media says about topic X (and which makes more sense), people (who know you and your reputation) are inclined to believe you over the media.

This only has a local impact, but global is made of local.

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