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Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

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Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#321

Post by gunian »

samspot wrote: post #81

"But on the negative side, stoicism’s Providential claim that everything in the universe is already perfect and that things which seem bad or unjust are secretly good underneath (a claim Christianity borrowed from Stoicism) can be used to justify the idea that the rich and powerful are meant to be rich and powerful, that the poor and downtrodden are meant to be poor and downtrodden, and that even the worst actions ar…

man old testament was the shit it says slaves should be freed with an advance after 6 years

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#322

Post by gunian »

worthless-trash wrote: post #304
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most American christianity is actually fake christianity or derived christianity. To understand real christianity, once must read tolstoy.

Most Tolstoyan Christians are actually fake Christians, to understand real Christianity you must read k&r learning c.

most k&r learning c are actually fake christians to understand real christianity you have to read the constitution and the rust book

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#324

Post by gunian »

scantis wrote: post #111
samspot wrote: post #81

"But on the negative side, stoicism’s Providential claim that everything in the universe is already perfect and that things which seem bad or unjust are secretly good underneath (a claim Christianity borrowed from Stoicism) can be used to justify the idea that the rich and powerful are meant to be rich and powerful, that the poor and downtrodden are meant to be poor and downtrodden, and that even the worst actions ar…

In the story oh Hiob/Job,he is unaffected in his behavior and the trust instilled in him from others, which clearly discouble his person from his misfortune. In the original there is no word for faith, believe or trust only for character. Job is of good character despite his misfortune, that makes him a man of God.

isn't it crazy an all powerful being would abuse a person to teach them some vague lesson? like truly if you think about it objectively how is that different from the Mike Vick dog fighting scandal

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#325

Post by gunian »

goatlover wrote: post #175
nradov wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much all Roman emperors would be considered tyrants and mass murderers by the standards of modern western liberal democracies. Marcus Aurelius was a product of his time and hardly a hero to emulate. But despite their flaws we can learn some universal lessons from their surviving writings that still apply to modern life — including at least some elements of stoicism.

Modern western liberal democracies aren't without faults either. They've been involved in a few conflicts themselves, like Iraq and Israel/Palestine (whatever your view the situation is an ongoing mess not really helped by foreign influence). Or propping up illiberal rulers. There's the values liberal democracies espouse, and then there are the geopolitical realities of how they act.

my fav part of HN is how slavery and the CIA just don't exist

but stoicism is cool though if you rich and have a choice. if you're poor it's kind of forced on you because your choice is either be ok with the abuse or die

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#326

Post by drdude »

codr7 wrote: post #275
carlosjobim wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you accept to be said? What would be good enough for you? Words are not magical, they are just sounds. In the most important situations in life and in death, words are simply lacking. We as humans haven't been gifted with neither a spoken nor a written language which can encompass all our feelings and meanings. Words cannot even come close. So people have to do with what they have. And you are in no positi…

It doesn't take much common sense to realize that someone who's neck deep into grief isn't going to find much comfort in being told something happened for a reason. I happen to believe that everything does happen for a reason, because in general that makes more sense to me and there's no proof either way; but in the middle of the storm it's an extremely difficult position to hold. What people actually do need in thos…

I strongly agree!

I'd rather say something truthful and of support, backed by real action and history if actual support instead of saying something trivial. I remember a friend told me such thing when I was grieving (something along the lines of "you have to pray" or something) and I blurted "oh really? so I wasn't praying. so it was my fault? so I needed YOU to remind me at my worst times? what happened to reason?"... he stopped talking to me for few months, we are still friends... but if he hugged me and kept quiet just the looks of their face feeling sad for me would have been the perfect support I needed. Sometimes silence is way better than telling a religious lie to "comfort me".

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#327

Post by munificent »

vishnugupta wrote: post #291
munificent wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For one, that all bad things are actually good is not a tenet of Christianity and is not in the Bible. Surely you in your life you have met many Christians who said "God works in mysterious ways", "there is a purpose for everything", "trust in the Lord", etc.? In the Christian communities I grew up around, it was a pervasive idea that misfortune was explained away by our limited understanding. These cliches were al…

> misfortune was explained away by our limited understanding I don’t think this is unique to Christianity. A similar key concept in Hinduism is “karma”.

Yes, from the article:

"In Buddhism this is karma, while for the stoics it is Providence, the same concept of Providence that Christianity later borrowed, which argues that everything in the world which seems bad is actually good in a way we cannot fully understand because of our limited perspective."

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#328

Post by nickpsecurity »

aschobel wrote: post #44
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

I wonder what caused the current obsession with stoicism. It seems vacant.

Could you recommend another philosophy worth exploring? As someone who's relatively new to Stoicism, I've found the four virtues (wisdom, courage, justice, and temperance) to offer valuable guidance for living a balanced life. I'd genuinely appreciate hearing more about your perspective—why do you find Stoicism vacant?

I'd suggest the Word of God (Bible). It's full of wisdom which includes the four you mentioned. It can also give you access to our Creator on a personal level, forgiveness for sins you've committed, eternal life, inner change driven by God Himself, and prayer He actually answers. It's pretty awesome.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&versio...

I usually give people John above. I tell them to ask God to speak to their hearts about the truth. Then, read it all the way through. Ask as you read: "Who is Jesus? What is our problem? How does He say we will be saved? How do we live?"

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#329

Post by TaurenHunter »

senko wrote: post #308
TaurenHunter wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if that child was to become a Hitler otherwise?

This is the cruelest comment I've seen on HN in a long time.

It is not cruel, it is a hypothetical question/ethical dilemma just like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

If you could go back in time would you kill Hitler or silently give him neuroblastoma at an age before he announced his evil ideas so that he doesn't become a martyr?

Check out: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0734776/

Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)

#330

Post by r_singh »

samspot wrote: post #81

"But on the negative side, stoicism’s Providential claim that everything in the universe is already perfect and that things which seem bad or unjust are secretly good underneath (a claim Christianity borrowed from Stoicism) can be used to justify the idea that the rich and powerful are meant to be rich and powerful, that the poor and downtrodden are meant to be poor and downtrodden, and that even the worst actions ar…

To me, it seems that Stoicism’s assumption—that everything is perfect and interconnected—shares similarities with, and might even originate from, Hindu philosophy or other Indian philosophies, which view ultimate reality as inherently perfect
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