Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#321

Post by post_break »

tene80i wrote: post #239

I have a naive question, and it's genuine curiosity, not a defence of what's happening here. This ADP feature has only existed for a couple of years, right? I understand people are mad that it's now gone, but why weren't people mad _before_ it existed? For like, a decade? Why do people treat iCloud as immediately dangerous now, if they didn't before? Did they think it was fully encrypted when it wasn't? Did people no…

Yes, I was mad before it existed and didn't use icloud backups. With the E2E and ADP I turned it on. If it gets nuked in the US I'll go back to encrypted local backups only.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#322

Post by jahewson »

throwaway77385 wrote: post #206

The nightmare continues. For now I am using 3rd party backup services that are (currently) promising me that my backups are encrypted by a key they do not have access to, or control over. But can this even be believed in an age where these secret notices are being served to any number of companies? I suppose the next step would be to ensure that files don't ever arrive in the cloud unencrypted, but I have yet to see…

In the case of the U.K., they can throw you in jail for not handing over your encryption key, so it’s a moot point. They’ve been slowly expanding this power for twenty years now.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#323

Post by spankalee »

nottorp wrote: post #184
burnerthrow008 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn't the US have access to all the data of non US citizens whose data is stored in the US without any oversight? Er, no...? I'm not sure where you get that idea. Access requires a warrant, and companies are not compelled to build systems which enable them to decrypt all data covered by the warrant. See, for example, the Las Vegas shooter case, where Apple refused to create an iOS build that would bypass iCloud s…

I asked if your Android backup is encrypted. Implies I'm talking about unencrypted data. > See, for example, the Las Vegas shooter case I am not in Las Vegas or anywhere else in the US. So as far as i know all the data about me that is stored in the US is easily accessible without a warrant unless it's encrypted with a key that's not available with the storage. > companies are not compelled to build systems which ena…

> all the data about me that is stored in the US is easily accessible without a warrant

No, law enforcement needs a warrant to legally access any data. This is why Prism was illegal, and why companies like Google are pushing back against overly broad geofence search warrants.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#324

Post by gormandizer »

madeofpalk wrote: post #243
LuciOfStars wrote: post #7

Not gonna lie, I expected Apple to just kind of roll over and take the blow on this one. Interesting.

They did. They've giving the UK Government a backdoor to all UK users. Apple lost here.

But Apple is not giving the UK Government anything they didn't already have. Now iCloud encryption will function in the UK just as it has for years (decades?) before the inception of ADP.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#325

Post by spacedcowboy »

madeofpalk wrote: post #240
philsnow wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a false dichotomy. Another choice, however unpalatable to all parties, would have been for Apple to stop doing business in the UK.

> would have been for Apple to stop doing business in the UK Apple employes thousands of people in the UK. I really don't see any practical way they could have done that.

They could

They could pull out of the UK, and to hell with the consequences, but then if the EU decide to do the same thing, or the US, or China says "hold my beer", then the problem becomes much larger.

Losing the UK market wouldn't impact Apple that much - it'd be a hit to the stock, of course, but as a fraction of worldwide business, it isn't that huge. Larger markets would be a bigger issue.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#326

Post by mtrovo »

nottorp wrote: post #149
bArray wrote: post #106

Too right, it was far more problematic than they ever made out. > The UK government's demand came through a "technical capability notice" under the Investigatory Powers Act (IPA), requiring Apple to create a backdoor that would allow British security officials to access encrypted user data globally. The order would have compromised Apple's Advanced Data Protection feature, which provides end-to-end encryption for iCl…

> have an Android device beside me that regularly asks me to back my device up to the cloud But is that backup encrypted? If it's not, all they need is to access your data. This is about having access to backups that are theoretically encrypted with a key Apple doesn't have? > We're talking about the largest back door I've ever heard of. Doesn't the US have access to all the data of non US citizens whose data is stor…

> Doesn't the US have access to all the data of non US citizens whose data is stored in the US without any oversight?

Totally agree. Having this discussion so US centred just makes us miss the forest for the trees. Apart from data owned by US citizens, my impression is that data stored in the US is fair game for three letter agencies, and I really doubt most companies would spend more than five minutes agreeing with law enforcement if asked for full access to their database on non-US nationals.

Also, remember that WhatsApp is the go-to app for communication in most of the world outside the US. And although it's end-to-end encrypted, it's always nudging you to back up your data to Google or Apple storage. I can't think of a better target for US intelligence to get a glimpse of conversations about their targets in real time, without needing to hack each individual phone. If WhatsApp were a Chinese app, this conversation about E2E and backup restrictions would have happened a long time ago. It's the same on how TikTok algorithm suddenly had a strong influence on steering public opinion and instead of fixing the game we banned the player.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#327

Post by golemiprague »

grahamj wrote: post #278
throwaway77385 wrote: post #206

The nightmare continues. For now I am using 3rd party backup services that are (currently) promising me that my backups are encrypted by a key they do not have access to, or control over. But can this even be believed in an age where these secret notices are being served to any number of companies? I suppose the next step would be to ensure that files don't ever arrive in the cloud unencrypted, but I have yet to see…

IMO the only thing you can have a high level of trust in is your own *nix server. Backup those devices to it then encrypt there before being sent to the cloud.

[dead]

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#328

Post by grahamj »

basisword wrote: post #162
miroljub wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? In the UK, there's no right to bear arms, so people are pretty helpless against their oppressing government.

>> In the UK, there's no right to bear arms, so people are pretty helpless against their oppressing government. There's a right to bear arms in the US and it doesn't seem to be helping them with their oppressive government.

It only works when the gun nuts aren’t on the side of the oppressors.

Re: Apple pulls data protection tool after UK government security row

#329

Post by alt227 »

fguerraz wrote: post #30
jiriknesl wrote: post #13

I wonder, what are the alternatives now? Tresorit? Self-hosted Nextcloud?

There is no alternative really as only iCloud can back-up your settings, saved networks, and apps data. Other apps like Nextcloud, can only backup documents (those not in apps) and pictures, because there's an API for this. iTunes backup is an option, but it's not automatic and convenient.

Is that true? Only iCloud can back up an iPhone? They dont provide any way to even extract an encrypted archive so you can keep it safe for yourself?

I get more and more amazed at Apples lock in tactics. This is why I own nothing Apple, and have complete control over everything in my digital world.

Post reply on HN