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NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

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Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#321

Post by rmbyrro »

elzbardico wrote: post #264

What MBAs and Financists destroyed so far: - Western Industry. - The blue-collar middle class - The Middle Class - Our health care system - Our education - Western Economic Leadership. - Social Mobility Now they are busy destroying western technology, science and innovation on their never-ending selfish wealth-extraction quest. They convinced us that our homes are investments, so they can fleece us with their usurary…

> So, what next? our organs?

Yep, they started with our eye balls. In exchange, we are getting "relevant ads".

Also our frontal lobe. In exchange, we get depressive dopamine releases.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#322

Post by notabee »

noworld wrote: post #254
mananaysiempre wrote: post #10

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

Related: https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2024/08/12/whats_b... The Navy’s ability to build lower-cost warships that can shoot down Houthi rebel missiles in the Red Sea depends in part on a 25-year-old laborer who previously made parts for garbage trucks. Lucas Andreini, a welder at Fincantieri Marinette Marine, in Marinette, Wisconsin, is among thousands of young workers who’ve received employer-sponsored t…

This has been posted here a good bit before, but adding it in as relevant.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-navy-spent-billions-l...

We've let everything go to rot for the sake of a giant financial ponzi scheme that we call the U.S. economy.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#323

Post by GolfPopper »

underlipton wrote: post #306
noworld wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2024/08/12/whats_b... The Navy’s ability to build lower-cost warships that can shoot down Houthi rebel missiles in the Red Sea depends in part on a 25-year-old laborer who previously made parts for garbage trucks. Lucas Andreini, a welder at Fincantieri Marinette Marine, in Marinette, Wisconsin, is among thousands of young workers who’ve received employer-sponsored t…

Everything about this reeks to me. Why do we need to build so many warships? (To fight China? We're going to war with another nuclear power?) Why are we fighting Houthi rebels? But also, why isn't the government sponsoring this training? Why is it only thousands, and not hundreds of thousands or even millions of workers being trained? And when did the call go out that they were going to be offering training? (I never…

>Why do we need to build so many warships?

Igitur quī desīderat pacem, præparet bellum ("Therefore let him who desires peace prepare for war").[1] While I think there's immense scope for debate over what constitutes appropriate preparation in this or any other context, I believe the core idea, that effective preparation for war can prevent it, has merit. (Though it should not be the only way a country works to prevent war!) And there are ancillary uses for militaries, such as the prevention of piracy mentioned elsewhere.

1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_vis_pacem,_para_bellum

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#324

Post by dotnet00 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #172
dotnet00 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This service is awful, let's switch to the better one" You: "and give them money in exchange for services rendered?!!?"

They didn't complain about SpaceX itself getting money, they complained that some of that money will go to Musk.

That's a meaningless distinction though. What's the logic of not choosing the most reliable supplier in the industry just because the owner is rich?

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#325

Post by dei-no-uuu »

kazinator wrote: post #291

If the delays end up with Boeing extracting more money from NASA, it is obviously NASA who is inexperienced and mismanaged, while Boeing looks rather clever. If outside contractors and suppliers are causing delays while you pay them, the poor manager is you.

[flagged]

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#326

Post by silexia »

trentnix wrote: post #82

Pournelle’s Iron Law of Bureaucracy claims another victim. In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely. RIP Jerry. A Step Farther Out is one of my all time favorites.

This is why bankruptcy is such a good thing in private industry. And we need a mechanism like bankruptcy for government agencies.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#327

Post by notabee »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #205
toomuchtodo wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collins Aerospace is offering $19/hr for third shift welding work on aircraft. It was referred to me by someone in the labor community, and I spoke with HR under the guise of a prospective candidate to confirm. They do $26B/year in revenue.

This should be a top level comment - it kind of reinforces the point of the whole article. I understand that 15/hr is the (planned) US minimum wage?

People have been talking about raising the minimum wage to $15 for so long now (the "Fight for 15" movement started in 2012) that the inflation-adjusted value of that would now have to be almost $21/hr. However, the minimum wage is still $7.25 and seems to be likely to remain so.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#328

Post by silexia »

mr90210 wrote: post #70
iancmceachern wrote: post #59

It could just stop at hindering. I think it's safe to say at this point that Boeing is hindering Americans. Full stop. I'm a very proud American, my grandfather worked on Apollo, and was a submariner in WWII. Recently Boeing has not made me proud.

Off-topic: Dear proud American, pls loosen up your immigration rules for highly-skilled workers who despite the last years would still be very grateful to move to America. We want our grandchildren to one day also be proud Americans. Cheers, A friend from abroad who still believes in America

If we stopped illegal immigration, we would have far more room for high skills legal immigrants.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#329

Post by panta »

chrisco255 wrote: post #217
panta wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate culture changed radically in the 70s adopting Milton Friedman views that ethics and responsibility towards society have no place in the private sector, and as a consequence started maximizing profits in spite of everything else.

Corporations never had "responsibility towards society". In fact I much prefer corporations that don't pretend to have such a burden. It's almost always a false front. Corps have a responsibility to deliver a product or service at a competitive price in order to sustain growth. Friedman was an economist, not a corporate whisperer. To the extent that corps changed, they were forced to by market forces, most notably gl…

Maybe, but somehow their behaviour and their products and services changed. Companies are made of people, and individuals had more freedom to put value in what they did, they took pride in the quality of their work. After Friedman everything got "optimized" for revenue, even if this meant screwing the customers (or the society). There are some things that cannot possibly work with this "self-regulated" market, so if we want to accept this way of doing business, we should move back some responsibilities to the public sector (healthcare, infrastructures, rehabilitation, education, research), because the search for "immediate gratification" of shareholders can't move the society as a whole out of local maxima that are far away from society best possibilities.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#330

Post by dotnet00 »

akira2501 wrote: post #75
dotnet00 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The topic buying the votes isn't moon policy, it's that they're creating jobs. SLS was being given absurd sums of money for development well before Artemis was a thing. Canceling SLS would mean losing jobs, yes. But that's not because of some sort of Boeing monopoly on space (they're obviously not a monopoly in that area), it's because the program is designed to be inefficient, with tons of 3rd party suppliers intent…

> it's that they're creating jobs. It seems to me they just repurposed other industries and companies that were dwindling or going out of business anyways. I'm failing to see the millions of people put to work on this project. > they're obviously not a monopoly in that area SLS was officially started in 2011. SpaceX just had it's first successful launch and public verification of their platform in 2008. The situation…

>Okay.. then how do they connect that back to specific senators in the minds of the voters to help them get elected?

I feel like this should be obvious? The work is distributed across the country, but a state like New York or California is obviously less dependent on jobs from this than other states.

>Was that simply because he was a senator or because he was on a _specific_ committee? Do we want to get into how committee assignments are handed out? Or how that particular "power" actually functions?

He was on the senate appropriations committee, and considering that 30% of the senate is on the committee and we don't get to control who gets on it, I'd argue it still supports the point that senators have much more than just "fantastically small power" as you put it.

>SLS was officially started in 2011. SpaceX just had it's first successful launch and public verification of their platform in 2008. The situation today is different than it was when SLS was being put together. I think it's worth understanding in that context.

That doesn't cover the insistence from Congress on using it today and for the next 30 years.

>Maintaining cryogenics in orbit is actually harder than people admit and you're resting a huge part of your argument on a very shaky ideal here.

If only any serious research on long term cryogenic storage in orbit had been permitted, we'd know exactly how hard it is!

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