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NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

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Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#261

Post by coliveira »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #171
ipaddr wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the qualified people who desire to work in that location and have better options suddenly work for the government. If the idea is to train non-experienced people that's what Boeing did. What is going to prevent them for leaving for other local work that pays better once they have some experience. What the government should have done is reduce their pay for missing deadlines by having milestones in the contr…

Because government jobs are secure, Boeing subcontractor jobs where you are a cheap disposal cog are not. If you don’t see the value in security to someone making $20-$40/hr who needs healthcare benefits, you might start there. A union fixes this in the long term, but that will take time. Government can employ rapidly. Something, quickly, needs to change before we forget how to build because MBAs, accountants, and la…

The US has already forgotten how to build. This process has happened for 30 years, a full generation.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#262

Post by moffkalast »

tim333 wrote: post #246
moffkalast wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To paraphrase the investigators of the average Boeing airliner crash: "A trained pilot would not have been able to regain control in the required time"

Well, we have new CEO, Kelly Ortberg who started Aug 8th, to give it a go. It looks like they are having a go at correcting some of their more noted flaws - he's an engineer and is going to run things from Seattle. Good luck to him!

Yeah like that'll make any difference. They've had a bean counter in charge for the past 4 years, and another engineer before that who was fired over the 737 Max fiasco.

"CEO changes will continue until morale improves"?

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#263

Post by Rinzler89 »

Dalewyn wrote: post #232
Rinzler89 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China has made it pretty clear that it is planning to grow into a dominant position and then invade Taiwan and claim the 9 dotted line. Populist words are cheap. I'll start blaming China for warmongering when they actually put boots on the ground. Meanwhile how many dorne strikes has the US made in the middle east without any consequences?

Wars don't have to be waged with rubber and lead; actually, fighting a war is about the worst possible way to wage one. No, China is waging a war against the entire world in the smartest way imaginable, and most of us don't even realize it: They have their financial tendrils in all of our economies, down to the core elements and throughout the peripheries. Nearly everything has at least some degree of Chinese monies…

>No, China is waging a war against the entire world in the smartest way imaginable, and most of us don't even realize it:

IDK man, being drone striked from above by the USAF seems far worse to me than whatever China could be doing to me, but I'll bite.

>They have their financial tendrils in all of our economies, down to the core elements and throughout the peripheries. Nearly everything has at least some degree of Chinese monies and thus influence now.

More influence that the world reserve currency which last time I cheeked is the USD and only the US has the printer for it?

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#264

Post by elzbardico »

What MBAs and Financists destroyed so far:

- Western Industry.

- The blue-collar middle class

- The Middle Class

- Our health care system

- Our education

- Western Economic Leadership.

- Social Mobility

Now they are busy destroying western technology, science and innovation on their never-ending selfish wealth-extraction quest.

They convinced us that our homes are investments, so they can fleece us with their usurary schemes. So, what next? our organs?

They convinced us to exchange our pensions for the privilege of being the mark on a market where the sharks like them do whatever the fuck they want, from blatant insider trading, to pump and dump schemes, to outright fraud, having for all practical purposes bought the SEC a long time ago.

What they will kill next?

How long are we going to transfer wealth to those slimmy sweet talking ignorant greedy bean counters?

Our daily work is like being in a mad house because almost everything is subordinated to the the most sacred goal of cooking the next quarter numbers to ensure we maximize executive bonuses, and fuck the long run! crazy projects started, spin offs, merges, projects cancelled, company killing layoffs, fuck long term value generation! they want more and more, and more, and they fucking want it right now! the fucking bonus gollums.

Everything is fucked in our society but executive compensation. Xerox, HP, IBM, Boeing... How many other proud symbols of our economy and civilization are we going to let them destroy?

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#265

Post by xtracto »

darth_avocado wrote: post #62
desperate wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but money can't pay for skill that doesn't exist anymore.

Ohh but it can. The downfall of Boeing has literally been because it prioritized not paying money for skill that definitely exists.

Something else... US current political climate vs immigrants doesn't help. In addition to the life prospects of potential immigrants.

I'm a drop on the ocean only, but my case is the one I have: PhD in Computer Science, highly specialized and have lived and worked around the world , but there's not enough that attracts me to living in the US.

Its health system issues, the animosity against minorities and immigrants and the lack of reasonable immigration paths for professionals make it unsexy.

And as I said I'm literally nobody. How would the US attract real post Ww2 talent?

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#266

Post by mdorazio »

mr90210 wrote: post #60
mglz wrote: post #27

The damage to Boeing is already done I am afraid. But moving forwards there needs to be accountability for management types that destroy companies in such a way. This is a massive destruction of capability for the USA and will continue to be extremely expensive in the future.

NNT wrote Skin in the Game, which discusses such types of managers who cause similar damages. He argues that there should be clawbacks to managers that harm a company to the degree Boeing’s current management has. He invokes The Code of Hammurabi to illustrate how ancient civilization used to deal with such class of professionals.

The challenge with this is how far back you have to go. A lot of the damages that ultimately led to the 737 MAX and now this space boondoggle started under James McNerney, who was CEO from 2005 to 2016 and is now 74 years old.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#267

Post by JumpCrisscross »

thanksgiving wrote: post #228
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Old Space companies will never adopt fixed price Starliner is fixed cost.

> Starliner is fixed cost. It sounds like you agree that Boeing is failing to adopt to fixed cost? Just from pop culture, isn't starliner that thing that leaves people stranded for a year after making them shed "excess" baggage for a supposedly weeklong(?) trip? Also from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Starliner > Boeing has lost more than $1.5 billion in budget overruns on the Starliner project which has been…

> It sounds like you agree that Boeing is failing to adopt to fixed cost?

“Will never adopt” and is failing to adopt and adapt to are miles apart.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#268

Post by orls »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #121
jtriangle wrote: post #3

Headline makes it sound like it's intentional, like Boeing knows the moon's haunted and wants to prevent people from going. Turns out they're just a giant company suckling on the teat of mommy government and have developed severe structural dysfunction that prevents them from effectively executing their plans.

> Originally, the EUS was allocated a budget of $962 million and intended to fly on Artemis II, which in January was pushed to no earlier than September 2025. But by the OIG’s estimate, EUS costs are expected to balloon to $2 billion through 2025 and reach $2.8 billion by the time Artemis IV lifts off in 2028. Lets see they were allocated a budget of $962 million in order to deliver in 2025. But now they can deliver…

Exactly - all the anti-Boeing sentiment in the comments here (while deserved) should also be directing some ire at the funding and contract structures being used for these projects (I.e. “cost-plus” contracts).

They’re just bad policy if you want the _nominal objectives_ of the project delivered on time and on budget; they have structural incentives for contractors to go over.

(It’s pretty clear that delivering the nominal objectives is not what the relevant policy-makers are actually aiming for, though. The cost overruns are the real goal for them, as it’s a kind of pork to steer regional funding)

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#269

Post by terribleperson »

dopidopHN wrote: post #242
sgnelson wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the OIG report, it states: "Michoud officials stated that it has been difficult to attract and retain a contractor workforce with aerospace manufacturing experience in part due to Michoud’s geographical location in New Orleans, Louisiana, and lower employee compensation relative to other aerospace competitors."

I live in New Orleans. It’s 1h away of commute. They pay a solid 30% below market. ( 100k for a senior eng position )

At 30% below market, I imagine most of their applicants are either true believers, fuck-ups, or lying about their experience. Probably mostly fuck-ups.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#270

Post by [deleted] »

elzbardico wrote: post #264

What MBAs and Financists destroyed so far: - Western Industry. - The blue-collar middle class - The Middle Class - Our health care system - Our education - Western Economic Leadership. - Social Mobility Now they are busy destroying western technology, science and innovation on their never-ending selfish wealth-extraction quest. They convinced us that our homes are investments, so they can fleece us with their usurary…

[deleted]
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