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Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

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Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#321

Post by helboi4 »

rep_lodsb wrote: post #302
helboi4 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely have a very hyper-capitalist definition of violence. It's sort of pathetic how much people somehow care about the property of the ruling classes that they will never own.

As opposed to people who define words written on the internet and not even directed at a specific person as "violence"?

I never said anything like that so why are you implying that I am? Nice strawman bro, I'm not crying over things people say to me on the internet. Anyone who sees a mean comment on the internet that doesn't actually threaten or incite violence as violence is just as pathetic as people who think art they don't like on a wall is violence. Can you please argue against points I actually made, thank you.

Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#322

Post by broken-kebab »

tichiian wrote: post #298
72deluxe wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a strange argument that seems to romanticise this "border" called "the law". It is black and white: someone is defacing something that doesn't belong to them. You can call the result whatever you want ("art","expression" etc) but the fundamental issue doesn't change. Would you be happy to wake up and see your car covered in paint? What about the windows on your house? Would you see this as an "improvement" too?

An ugly beton brut building defaces the landscape and the view that should belong to everyone. A beautiful graffiti can improve that view and landscape. Under those circumstances, a graffiti can be legally wrong but morally right. However only very few graffiti "artists" rise above the skill level where their work could be considered beautiful. Usually it's just plain old dick measuring contests like spraying politic…

If it should belong to everyone as you claim, then every aspiring graffiti maker must ask everyone's opinion before starting spraying.

Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#323

Post by versteegen »

lukan wrote: post #295
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For intercity trains it doesn't matter what the propulsion method is though, since every train will make a lot of noise at speed. It's improved with aerodynamics and better wheel / tracks, but ultimately noise will be an issue. Consider also cars where at speed the noise is not due to the engine, but to wheel / road noise.

I live outside the city, so I know the difference in sound at high speed when they pass by. It makes a great difference. Combustion vs electric but also the manufacturing and damping of the wheels etc. Steelwheel on steel can be very silent.

Yes, there are many components to train noise.

I used to live by rails with a small incline, and the diesel locomotives made a loud low noise accelerating uphill from a station, while downhill the trains moved far faster and the engines were quite insignificant compared to noises due to speed: mainly the wheel noise and going over the expansion joints.

Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#324

Post by subjectsigma »

thuuuomas wrote: post #34
ldjb wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The impact isn't merely aesthetic. For one thing, it can be costly to remove graffiti. And when it's on publicly owned property, who pays for that removal? The public, of course. If, for example, a train is the target of graffiti, it will often need to be taken out of service. This, then, results in a degraded service to the travelling public. Furthermore, graffiti artists often put themselves in dangerous situations…

> The impact isn't merely aesthetic. For one thing, it can be costly to remove graffiti. The cost incurred here is a choice the owner makes when they disagree with the aesthetics of the graffiti.

This has got to be the most insane comment in this thread.

“Hey, I’m going to hold a gun to your head. If you don’t give me $100 I’ll shoot you. Remember though that the cost incurred here is a choice you’re going to make if you disagree with my actions. I can’t truly force you to do anything…”

Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#325

Post by helboi4 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #267
lqet wrote: post #4

> a transparent noise barrier Most rail noise barriers in Germany are completely covered in graffiti [0], so I wouldn't expect them to remain transparent for more than a few weeks. [0] https://ga.de/imgs/93/8/5/9/3/0/9/1/9/tok_8596521c60eeaa53ee...

It's interesting to read this conversation about graffiti happening on a hacker forum, yet it seems stuck in a polarised stand-off around aesthetics and ownership rights. That's a shame, because the root issues are in information warfare, the battle to control information spaces. To the extent The Internet is still considered a "public space"; Is spamming and trolling not a form of digital graffiti? Is the creation o…

Yeah I'm deeply disappointed that these so called "hackers" are so united on such a tired, pro-authoritarian view on the use of public space.

Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#326

Post by p_l »

agumonkey wrote: post #308
oaiey wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, life is not black and white. Even without knowing anything about graffiti culture, there is a border between defacing and improving. And graffiti artists are moving over that border back and forth. Some of the most beautiful art I have seen are graffiti

Then let us buy them some large white boards so they can paint on it and move them somewhere else later

Some areas had, if not fully formally, dedicated areas for graffiti.

As in, "we will leave this unadorned wall, and we won't clean up the graffiti unless it's truly an eyesore, and we won't chase you for it". The wall I most recall was close to quite utilized road, so yes it was very "public facing".

The end result was that it was the one place where I would see actually impressive graffiti, with competition to make better stuff, instead of random vandal tags.

Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#327

Post by helboi4 »

vasco wrote: post #285
wiseowise wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your solution to vandalism is to give in to vandals and vandalize your building yourself?

You're typing vandalism to make it seem like I also support breaking stuff or something? I have no problem with living in a building with stuff scribbled on it, and it sounds cool to have a customized building by the neighbours. Imagine all the kids that live in the building leave their name somewhere, it'd add to the history. Right now my building is white, and has bright orange metal bars. Is white with orange bars…

fr breaking things and making them not unfunctional is not the same as drawing on them. you make a great point. I really doubt that most of the people writing here have ever even painted the outside of the building they live in. We don't actually choose any of these things. But if we all DIY customised everything, we would actually have more agency. And I love seeing evidence of actual public interaction with things around me.

Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#328

Post by broken-kebab »

user_7832 wrote: post #287
72deluxe wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a strange argument that seems to romanticise this "border" called "the law". It is black and white: someone is defacing something that doesn't belong to them. You can call the result whatever you want ("art","expression" etc) but the fundamental issue doesn't change. Would you be happy to wake up and see your car covered in paint? What about the windows on your house? Would you see this as an "improvement" too?

> What a strange argument that seems to romanticise this "border" called "the law" Just because something is illegal, does not make it immoral or unethical by itself. I do understand the argument against graffiti, but there’s also something to be said about any kind of expression that’s inherently rebellious and counter-culture. > Would you be happy to wake up and see your car covered in paint? What about the windows…

Graffiti tends to appear on every surface which is not actively guarded. Including beautiful historical buildings, and including private properties. "Public" walls are just a visible example of a property which nobody cares about strong enough, and nobody is held responsible for (compared to a private owner who often can be fined for keeping vandalized facade as it is).

Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#329

Post by carlosjobim »

umpalumpaaa wrote: post #9
lqet wrote: post #4

> a transparent noise barrier Most rail noise barriers in Germany are completely covered in graffiti [0], so I wouldn't expect them to remain transparent for more than a few weeks. [0] https://ga.de/imgs/93/8/5/9/3/0/9/1/9/tok_8596521c60eeaa53ee...

If you dive into the graffiti scene a bit you will start to appreciate all those graffitis. The story behind some of them is super interesting. There is a lot of "competition", "collaboration", and group dynamics involved. It is truly fascinating. I was living in Cologne (Ehrenfeld) for a while in a place with awesome graffiti and every weekend there were people taking pictures "collecting" and documenting the graffi…

Everybody can see the difference between graffiti art and graffiti vandalism. No need to look into the story behind it. Most people appreciate beautiful graffiti and hate the ugly tags and other untalented crap.

Re: Deutsche Bahn introduces "MetaWindow"

#330

Post by subjectsigma »

helboi4 wrote: post #319
subjectsigma wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this seems on-brand. Graffiti artist imagines himself as the hero in some epic class struggle, anyone who opposes him must be an enemy sympathizer! In reality we just want to live in a city that doesn’t have ugly graffiti all over it. It’s OK, when you grow up you’ll understand. Walking little kids past a wall that reads FUCK because “the community” (aka a single edgy teen) decided it should is not a comfortable…

I have nieces and nephews and if I walked past a wall with them that reads FUCK i'd probably laugh and tell them its a bad word and move on with my life.

Would it still be funny if it was a swastika? Or the n-word? Is that also a part of your glorious fight against evil capitalists? If not, why is it any less legitimate? Clearly the “community” must want it there if it was left up.
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