Singapore has no drug problems. You might think what they do is extreme but it works.
For drug dealers, I would argue it's not nearly extreme enough.
[dead]
To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
321–330 of 1001 posts
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#322So much sympathy for drug users and business owners, but what about the private citizens who get victimized by these drug users? I was beaten nearly to death (in broad daylight, in a residential neighborhood) in Seattle in 2020 by two men enabled to descend into meth addiction by permissive policies. In my victim support group I met so many people - innocent people - permanently injured & disfigured like me, or raped…
That's terrible. I'm glad that never happens in places with harsher policies.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#323Nowhere in these comments have I see anybody take the position that decriminalization is not enough; drugs need to be legalized and regulated. I have a close friend whose relative is a heroin addict. According to her, a lot of overdoses are due to almost no "heroin" actually being heroin, rather its fentanyl cut to varying degrees of strength. Not knowing what you're taking, and not knowing how strong it is, can lead…
> She decided to get clean only when she had a close brush with death thanks to fentanyl. Under your system she would've never decided to get clean then? Also dying much earlier than she would've had to and probably adding a bunch of burden to the health system. People chastice cigarete smokers for much less.
I'm genuinely curious why you think she should get clean. I fail to see what sort of burden she'd put on the health care system. AFAIK, long term opoid use is less dangerous than cigarette smoking, and the highest danger is of falls.
(https://fpm.ac.uk/opioids-aware-clinical-use-opioids/long-te...)
That's when the user knows what they're taking..
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
I actually don't think we should decriminalize. Just legalize it and let people get pure product at dirt cheap prices. There's no reason to fund crime (drug dealers/organized crime), maim and kill users, push users into poverty, and generate and push the externalizes of drug use onto the rest of society. This is the choice we have made and continue to make a society under a prohibitionist regime, decriminalization or…
What does "legalize and regulate" mean? Isn't that true of most drugs? We are talking about what those regulations should be and what to do when people break the regulations.
Probably as many regulations as there are on alcohol or tobacco or pharmaceuticals (which I'm also not a fan of the doctor/pharmaceutical gated access to other drugs). If you produce it has to be pure, tested, not adulterated, with standards for production facilities. If you consume, only in particular establishments or at home, and you can't drive while under the influence.
If someone breaks those regulations, then they face similar kinds of penalties as people who produce and consume alcohol would. I really do not understand why people do not draw the same conclusion as if we don't already have a terribly destructive drug that society has more or less made peace with.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think other cities bussing and flying homeless people out west outweighs every possible policy change. We’ll never know if any of these policies stood a chance due to the USA viewing the west coast as a dumping ground for homeless people. Next time you’re passing by these people, ask them where they are from originally. Locals are like 20% of the problem.
I don’t think this is it. A lot of the unhoused in Seattle are locals or in state, and many of the out of state are from neighboring states such as Idaho or other West Coast states. Rather I think the problem is that half assed decriminalization efforts simply aren’t enough and that drug overdose has become a much more severe issue because of the opioid epidemic and the proliferation of fentanyl. What needs to happen…
Yes, for Seattle a key issue is there is hardly any supporting services available for the mass of people who need it. There are just a lot of people needing services. Seattle also has a huge shortage of mental health treatment professionals. You can't just start working with one of them, you have to wait for months on a waiting list. There's not nearly housing at night.
So you have fentanyl, not much housing, not much treatment, not enough hospital space. People get addicted, at least some move here when addicted and then they are stuck.
It's also not just a seattle problem. Alaska has also been struggling with lots of deaths from drug abuse or overdose. Wasilla - https://alaskapublic.org/2023/04/10/troopers-warn-of-lethal-..., Anchorage - https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/anchorage/2023/07/27/anchora...
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hell, why not just summarily execute them. No more homeless problem!
Sounds like you’re volunteering to take them in. Good for you.
I don’t like having my own very not-homeless and not drug addict family members for extended stay…
Not wanting houseguests doesn’t somehow mean we aren’t collectively smart enough to figure out which levers need some tweaking to mitigate drug addiction and housing issues.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#327Singapore has no drug problems. You might think what they do is extreme but it works.
Well what they do is: - Have a government who owns almost all the land, and provide subsidized housing to over 75% of the citizens. - Provides universal healthcare, again subsidized through the government - And forces quotas for all ethnicities to ensure everyone is equally represented everywhere. So I guess we could try it Singapore's way, but Republicans keep saying it's a bad idea.
— they hang you if you are caught with drugs.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are you talking about? Homeless shelters are full, wages are the lowest they have been in decades, and US health care is the most expensive in the world
Available shelter space, housing vacancies: https://www.kqed.org/news/11668623/why-do-thousands-of-l-a-s... https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/san-f... https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/top-stories/story/2020-... > wages are the lowest they have been in decades This is an endless argument. Why can't a person with 0 skills rent an apartment in San Francisco? Some wages are very low. If you can't…
You're acting like people aren't emotionally attached to their home cities.
Most people are born and raised in the same city or area their whole lives. The adult illiteracy rate is 20% and less than 40% get any kind of 4 year degree. Options are limited. People will cling to hope and the life (and community!) they know, until they're broke and lost their job... and at that point, they straight up can't move to Fresno and start that Walmart job. Walmart wouldn't hire them without a local place to live, and cheap Fresno landlords wouldn't rent to someone without a local job. Neither Walmart nor the landlord has an incentive to change, they're doing just fine exploiting the local Fresno populace.
Low-skill/low-pay life situations are a completely different reality than what well-off knowledge workers know.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
History shows that making it illegal didn't work either.
When it comes to dangerous drugs, nothing "works". We have to choose the least-bad policies. A lot of people, including me, thought the war on drugs was pretty much the worst policy position. Now I'm seeing that there are (perhaps) worse policies. We need to be quantitative and nuanced, not speak in sweeping characterizations.
Right. The reason the prohibition failed was because it was not very nuanced. Whatever is done needs to be done in a controlled, nuanced way.
Re: To revive Portland, officials seek to ban public drug use
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of curiosity, are you Portuguese or do you live there?
I live here. There is almost no crime, the streets are clean, very few (visible) homeless, good public transport. I wish they'd cheer up a bit though, maybe colour outside the lines occasionally.
You're very lucky, a beautiful country and people.