321–330 of 409 posts
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That's not "wages", that's "average wages". I don't expect much but I at least expect a passing knowledge of statistics and intellectual honesty. If most people have nothing and one billionaire joins the group that doesn't make everyone rather wealthy even if it drastically raises the average. Keep in mind that there was a massive rise in C-level and especially CEO compensation compared to most other wages. Arguably…
Which book?
Fuck these companies that think they can break the unions our former generations built for the purpose of being treated fair. Americans don't get it. We Scandinavians are not built on a cultural foundation which circles around creating our own safety nets. We are not lucky. We worked hard for it for hundreds of years. Same thing goes for Wolt or Uber etc. They are not welcome here if they can't treat workers by their…
Yeah... As an American, i don't get it. Why is the Swedish union forcing the workers at Tesla to sign an arb agreement when they get paid much more than the average union worker in the country? Does strong union actually result in better pay? If you compare the average software salary from the US to Sweden, it seems like it's doing the opposite, no?
I could make double my salary if I accepted offers from US companies, but I've chosen to live in Europe instead.
Money is a mean to something, ultimately. I actually believe that the labor protections and social safety net provided in European countries typically makes for a healthier society.
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The point of the Swedish model is to avoid micro management from the state and instead of mandating work regulations through law businesses and unions can negotiate sector specific agreements that suits the very people and companies that it affects. Businesses and unions are better at knowing the needs of companies and people than what any government is. Not everything has to be achieved through laws. In Sweden we ge…
> In Sweden we generally prefer to avoid laws whenever possible, deferring to best practices, common sense and business agreements. I think I would've agreed with this sentiment in the past. However, the last 7-8 years in the US have shown that (at least in politics) rules need to be spelled out. We had a bunch of informal agreements of what people in certain positions should do or not do, but as we have seen someone…
People coming round to test the limits is fine, the problem is that in the US parts of the ruling class has decided the (short term) benefits of tolerating severe transgression to those limits is worth it, in effect simply removing the limits.
The problem is simply that limits don't work if there is no the willingness by the people in power to enforce them, and this regardless of if them are informal or formalised limits. Many things things Trump did were simply illegal, but since Congress didn't impeach for these crimes they just become "controversial actions".
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Aggressive American union busting tactics don't go down well in Europe. This isn't the first time this type of thing has happened. Walmart famously crashed and burned in Germany, for example, because they treated the German unions like uppity communists.
> Aggressive American union busting tactics don't go down well in Europe. But... Tesla never even got that far. They just hired some people who apparently wanted the jobs? No one got fired or threatened, no bribes are alleged. It really seems like IF Metall fired first, no?
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> The important detail which most people seem to miss is that Tesla's workers aren't behind this. They don't want to unionize, because there's no reason to. > The IF Metall union is striking because they just want to get their cut. What sort of people do you think IF Metall is made up of? It's the second largest union in Sweden, the people who are a part of the union are also workers at Tesla and other companies. It'…
It's a huge organization and has definitely a lot of people employed as "career-unionists". Who do you think the membership fee goes? The membership fee is typically 1.5% of employee salary. Just with a quick calculation 1.5% of 300,000 members x $50,000 average salary results into $225,000,000. Despite what HN seems to think, these unions are bullies and completely unnecessary middle men.
How much experience do you have with Swedish unions specifically? And with Swedish industry in general?
Judging by your comments, your experience seems to come from reading US news, is that close to the truth?
For example, the percentage of your salary for membership is not a static one, it varies. And even so, it has a max amount (around 60USD last time I checked). Did you account for that when doing your calculations?
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Can you realistically have a vote to stop paying taxes or to smoke weed? Because Seko could have a vote to deliver to Tesla if they wanted, but ultimately the Unions are on the employees side so we're okay with their decisions.
> Can you realistically have a vote to stop paying taxes or to smoke weed? This is inevitably going to turn into a quibble about whether representation and/or the electoral college constitutes "true" democracy, so I'm going to head that off by amending my previous comment to be at the state level (rather than the federal level). There's several states that had ballot measures on tax increases and/or marijuana legaliz…
Okay, I see, but then you could also leave your Union for zero cost. You could leave your US citizenship too, I guess, by moving. But my point is I think forcing is far too strong a word for the union meanings here. Why wouldn't you support this if you benefit from the Swedish model?
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What is striking here is that the Government offices all use the services of PostNord. So Tesla has no choice over using PostNord, they are mandated by law to do so to receive their plates, yet a private interest group can arbitrarily deny them access to public services. There is a lot of verbiage about how Tesla is shooting itself in the foot for peanuts, and I guess it's a legitimate position to hold. The far large…
It’s easy to avoid actions like this: Sign a collective bargain with a union and all unions are bound to leave you at peace for that agreements duration. So far two international companies have refused this: Toys R Us decades ago, eventually they had to give in. Tesla now.
Where will these political demands stop? Will the unions drive into a bankruptcy any company that expands in another low cost, not unionized country? Any company that employs migrants? Who would bet a billion dollar investment on the answer to such questions?
> I disagree with the idea of unions. I just don’t like anything which creates a lords-and-peasants kind of thing So, Elon Musk has zero self-awareness. Good to know.
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What? I really do not understand the analogy, would be good to expand on how it relates to the current situation.
If you support taxes (or striking) and the government (or the union) forces you to pay taxes (or strike), you're not being "forced". So far so good. But what if you don't support taxes (or striking)? You might think taxes are a good thing and are necessary for a functioning society, but it's still pretty clear that for someone that doesn't want to pay taxes, they're forced to pay taxes.
Wat? In a discussion about if someone is being forced to take an action, consider not overloading the string "forced" with several meanings.
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What is striking here is that the Government offices all use the services of PostNord. So Tesla has no choice over using PostNord, they are mandated by law to do so to receive their plates, yet a private interest group can arbitrarily deny them access to public services. There is a lot of verbiage about how Tesla is shooting itself in the foot for peanuts, and I guess it's a legitimate position to hold. The far large…
> What is striking here is that the Government offices all use the services of PostNord. Why is it striking? They own PostNord. It's 60% owned by Sweden's government, 40% by Denmark's. It's a state-owned corporation. The US government tends to use USPS for similar reasons.
So, far from being an action of the government itself, this is the doing of a private interest group - the unionized employees of a government contractor - that are thus able to completely sabotage any private company by denying access to essential (and legally mandatory) government services, license plate registration. It's arbitrary private control over a public service. This is striking for any country claiming to uphold rule of law.