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Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#321

Post by mrguyorama »

donkeybeer wrote: post #279
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to notice any event where firefox "screw users over" that was not vastly overblown, especially compared to the competitors. People tend to just judge Mozilla way more harshly. It's very unfair: they do good, and we ask even more of them.

This opinion might differ from others but my main complaint is with their useless and sometimes hostile UI changes rather than the occasional ad for other Mozilla services. For example recently the change to tabs floating disconnected from the pages, which I had to use userchrome to override. Next problem I am trying to tackle right now is favicon being hidden when the audio playing icon is on a tab that seems to hav…

>the change to tabs floating disconnected from the pages

What does this mean? My experience using tabs in firefox has not changed in like twenty years!

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#322

Post by mcpackieh »

donkeybeer wrote: post #272
jamienicol wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can save as PDF from the "share" menu

Ah I see so it went into the "useless UI shifting" bucket rather than the "deleted features" bin. But I am happy to know it still exists thankfully.

It's because of the salaried "UX experts". Paying somebody 6 figures to bikeshed the precise size and color of the home button is obviously farcical so they pretend to be more useful by making more dramatic changes, which amount to shuffling things around to make users relearn the software. They're ostensibly supposed to make things better for users, but in reality there's little to do on that front so they make themselves look productive by sabotaging users instead.

They can never provide rational justification for any of it. Their "data" arguments are farcical. Have you ever tried to push back against a UX expert's decrees? They can't rationally defend their changes with the data that supposedly informs them so it rapidly devolves into "your opinions on UX are invalid because you're an engineer. I'm an expert so you need to trust me." Salaried "UX experts" are a blight on software development; if their services are ever needed at all, they should be given a short contract with clearly defined goals.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#323

Post by afavour »

seneca wrote: post #296
afavour wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really aren't any software engineering resources taken up with writing those blog entries. Would it help if they posted a weekly blog entry entitled "Yes, we're still working on Firefox"? I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about this as if it's an either/or.

Because the things an organization talks about gives you an idea of their priorities and their values. If a technical org you otherwise supported suddenly started posting blog entries about how Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, and maybe they could write a chatbot to help correct misconceptions about Nazis, you would probably change your opinion about them, regardless of how much effort it took to write the post.

Equating any of the three examples the OP gave with "Hitler wasn't such a bad guy" is... an interesting take. But nevertheless, you're only looking at one thing. Why not look at the Firefox release notes?

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/116.0/releasenotes/

Three releases so far this month! Look at that technical organization iterating on its core product!

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#324

Post by mrguyorama »

serf wrote: post #180
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to notice any event where firefox "screw users over" that was not vastly overblown, especially compared to the competitors. People tend to just judge Mozilla way more harshly. It's very unfair: they do good, and we ask even more of them.

they're the best game in town, but they've also gone against long term user-base wishes again and again to either 1) try to create wider popularity with feature parity (didn't work) and 2) to capitalize in inappropriate ways that are against the ideals first set forward. It doesn't take a lot of mental effort to realize that the userbase left doesn't want telemetry and third party partnerships; Mozilla knew this, the…

Oh you were definitely harmed by the company using their money to buy a semi-popular bookmarking alternative for their users, that someone probably thought their users would like to use, with zero requirement to ever use pocket. My firefox install hasn't even had the pocket icon in however long, I can't remember.

Meanwhile google is pushing an attempt to strangle the open internet to death, in the open, for all eyes to see.

But no, lets keep pretending that mozilla doing a poorly executed ad is comparable to THAT

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#325

Post by mrguyorama »

Nextgrid wrote: post #264
shinryuu wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that is because they screw you over in secret? Whenever Firefox makes a mistake it gets very publicised, but whenever chrome does it it's just business as normal so no one really publicises it.

As far as I know Chrome doesn't use every possible opportunity to nag you about self-righteous BS on how they're better and more private than everyone else? It's one thing to make a mistake or do user-hostile decisions inline with your business model. But it's another to loudly shout about how "good" you are (and everyone else is bad) and then do the exact same thing. Same reason why a policeman or some law-enforceme…

Are you pretending that chrome doesn't advertise? Every single fucking day for a decade now, google.com told me to install chrome, and would even render "pop up" dialogs to that effect on google properties!!

What are you all smoking?

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#326

Post by asu_thomas »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #205
probably_wrong wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the Mozilla execs have no faith in Firefox and instead are using whatever branding remains to position themselves as champions of digital rights. And I mean sure, it's not a bad goal, but they are letting Firefox die in the process. And once you lost your place at the standards negotiating table, then what? They already capitulated when Google decided that browsers needed DRM, and I don't see them stop…

> I believe that the Mozilla execs have no faith in Firefox and instead are using whatever branding remains to position themselves as champions of digital rights. That’s a charitable interpretation. An uncharitable one would be that, due to flaws in American 501c3 legislation, at least some people involved in Mozilla view their job as a sinecure. Capture of a non-profit for personal benefit is a longstanding phenomen…

> Capture of a non-profit for personal benefit is a longstanding phenomenon in the USA.

No. Capture of a non-profit for personal benefit is key to the express purpose of non-profits in the USA.

The foremost function of non-profits in the US is to displace community organizations, especially democratic worker organizations which remotely resemble a workers' political party like you can find in other countries. Non-profit law in the US makes such organizations perfectly illegal while providing anti-democratic resemblances of them instead.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#327

Post by CWuestefeld »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #259
mgbmtl wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox lost power-users because 1) performance was bad 2) Chrome does very aggressive marketing and various Google sites break randomly on Firefox. And performance was very often bad because of extensions. Perhaps anecdotal, but whenever I ask a Chrome user why they don't use Firefox, that's the main two reasons they cite. I do ask often though. What "certain features" do non-tech-savvy people need? I know lots of d…

>Firefox lost power-users There is no better vertical tab solution than FireFox + Sidebury. If you are using horizontal tabs, you are not a "power-user" of a browser.

I'll look at that, but I really have to recommend TreeStyleTab.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#328

Post by Nextgrid »

mrguyorama wrote: post #325
Nextgrid wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know Chrome doesn't use every possible opportunity to nag you about self-righteous BS on how they're better and more private than everyone else? It's one thing to make a mistake or do user-hostile decisions inline with your business model. But it's another to loudly shout about how "good" you are (and everyone else is bad) and then do the exact same thing. Same reason why a policeman or some law-enforceme…

Are you pretending that chrome doesn't advertise ? Every single fucking day for a decade now, google.com told me to install chrome, and would even render "pop up" dialogs to that effect on google properties!! What are you all smoking?

An ad telling you to install Chrome is one thing. I don't believe any Google nor Chrome ad had self-righteous BS about privacy, "improving the web" or similar like Mozilla constantly does.

Also, ads on websites are one thing. Ads/nags within the browser itself (which I'm already using) are another. I'm pretty sure Google doesn't bother advertising Chrome to users who already use Chrome.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#329

Post by mcpackieh »

afavour wrote: post #318
mcpackieh wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the winner they selected in a "responsible AI challenge" competition How is hosting "responsible AI" competitions not something they're doing? Sounds like a huge waste and a distraction from what should be their core mission of protecting the web by making the best browser they possibly can. If they want to dip their toes into the AI space to stay trendy and relevant, they could at least do it in a way that constru…

> what should be their core mission of protecting the web by making the best browser they possibly can In your opinion. I disagree. They could spend a billion dollars on making the best browser the world has ever seen and it would still be used by next to no-one. People use the browser they're given, especially in the smartphone era we're in now. Android users use Chrome. iOS users use Safari, Mozilla isn't even allo…

> "They could spend a billion dollars on making the best browser the world has ever seen and it would still be used by next to no-one. [...] So they've clearly decided to expand their mission to protect the web."

Seems like you're now conceding matheusmoreira's point you disputed before:

> They got one billion dollars and they're reducing software development spending to focus on agenda pushing instead.

And you haven't bothered to answer my question, so I'll put it to you again: How does rewarding the development of a chatbot to talk about sexual violence relate to furthering their mission to "protect the web"? It's nothing more than the predictable synthesis of AI hype and a popular social cause, it has nothing to do with the web at all. If the best you can come up with is people will hear about this chatbot and then maybe they'll use Firefox, then why don't you just admit the whole thing is a farce?

And as for it being an effective promotion of firefox and "clearly an area of current interest", then where, besides Mozilla's corporate blog, have you ever heard of this chatbot competition or any of the three winners? The winner of the competition is "Sanative AI", never mentioned on HN before this comment. Do a general web search for "Sanative AI" tell me if any of the results you find are likely to inform people of Firefox's existence and benefits. I feel confident in asserting that this competition has not brought a single new user to Firefox, and was not in earnest ever meant to.

Re: Firefox desktop extensions coming soon for the upcoming Android release

#330

Post by mrguyorama »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #205
probably_wrong wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that the Mozilla execs have no faith in Firefox and instead are using whatever branding remains to position themselves as champions of digital rights. And I mean sure, it's not a bad goal, but they are letting Firefox die in the process. And once you lost your place at the standards negotiating table, then what? They already capitulated when Google decided that browsers needed DRM, and I don't see them stop…

> I believe that the Mozilla execs have no faith in Firefox and instead are using whatever branding remains to position themselves as champions of digital rights. That’s a charitable interpretation. An uncharitable one would be that, due to flaws in American 501c3 legislation, at least some people involved in Mozilla view their job as a sinecure. Capture of a non-profit for personal benefit is a longstanding phenomen…

Ah yes, meanwhile I still get to use the only browser not made by the Gigacorp trying to put advertising anywhere they can.

People get so pissy about mozilla pissing away a few dollars here and there, or maybe is full of people just extracting cash from the brand.

Meanwhile google as a corporation extracts a tax on pretty much anything that touches the internet.

But sure, mozilla is the bad guy here and we shouldn't use their browser......

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