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KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

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Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#321

Post by srik »

sph wrote: post #282
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #274

> As we also open the ability for applications to be uploaded in binary form, which is essential for low-friction compatibility with popular language-specific build systems such as Electron/Node, Rust, Go, etc - we also reduce the ability for users to scrutinise the source in the Flathub build system that was used to build their application. ...and their solution is running an antivirus scanner rather than stepping b…

Is NixOS a cult? Every time someone posts about Linux packaging, there's a "you should just use NixOS" comment. Although it provides its own solution to the Linux packaging problem, it's a single solution that comes with a whole load of baggage with it. It is not the panacea its proponents wants us to believe it is.

I mean you can't wander into a discussion about packaging without coming across a solution that does it well. Disclaimer, I do use NixOS as a daily driver now and it's not a panacea but after years on other distributions, it really is a breath of fresh air, so I'm not suprised it has many advocates.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#322

Post by smcl »

afavour wrote: post #252
megous wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe engineers might be enamoured by it. Whatever. On my GFs computer Chrome starts in about 7 minutes after fresh boot, no other programs running, yet. From a fricking Samsung SSD, 8GiB RAM. All it has to do is show some fake tabs and render a single page content. Tell about its quality to my GF. She's used to it, but some of these days, I'll check the DNS logs, to see if it's really loading all the 1000 tabs (she…

> On my GFs computer Chrome starts in about 7 minutes after fresh boot, no other programs running, yet. There is something wrong with your GF’s computer. I have no idea what but a seven minute start time is absolutely atypical.

They mentioned 1000 tabs which may go some way towards explaining it. If that's not how you're supposed to use Chrome (I'd understand if it wasn't) then I'd imagine some kind of notification to the user would be helpful. Something like: "Chrome may be a little slow, you have 1000 tabs open" including perhaps a table suggesting tabs that could be closed (i.e. if she's opened https://bbc.co.uk/news in 20 different tabs that were last accessed a month ago) and an easy mechanism to quickly do so.

I actually know of quite a few people who use browsers this way, so it may not be a terrible idea to have something like this.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#323

Post by stonogo »

Dalewyn wrote: post #218
phatfish wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu is Microsoft's "favorite" distro, they do seem rather made for each other. The Azure dev tools on Linux i have tried are all Snap only, or a tar file and maybe an rpm/deb. At the moment they seem to avoid Flatpak like the plague.

I would argue Microsoft's choice of Ubuntu is one based upon practicality and social inertia. As far as I'm aware, Ubuntu is still the biggest player in the consumer Linux market not counting Android. Given the need to balance upkeep costs with range of support, I can see why Microsoft chose just Ubuntu and threw the rest to the wind.

It's pretty on-brand for Microsoft to select a consumer Linux distribution when building out their B2B cloud product, instead of (for instance) one of the leading business-oriented distributions.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#324

Post by teekert »

padraic7a wrote: post #318
teekert wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use NixOS, but from what I've read, you should just use NixOS. All kidding aside, I installed NixOS (it installs like any other distro, it's just that after that you are completely lost), but it's a real paradigm shift. I'm just hoping for Ubuntu Declarative Donkey at this point and hope someone addresses the learning curve and the specialist language and tools used. I'd hate to invest all this time and then…

I don't use NixOS, or have any great interest in it tbh. But this podcast featuring Martin Wimpress (of Linux Mate and other projects) does a decent job of describing what NixOS is, and previews some ongoing and upcoming efforts to address the learning curve and lingo around it. https://linuxdowntime.com/category/podcast/

Great suggestion, I find Martin Wimpress to always be very clear and insightful. I myself listen to most Jupiter Broadcasting podcasts [0]. On their "Linux Unplugged" show [1] they did a NixOS challenge recently. There is an accompanying Matrix channel for noobs which can also be a great resource! See an overview of resources here: [2]. It's a fun community.

[0] https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/

[1] https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/show/linux-unplugged/

[2] https://github.com/JupiterBroadcasting/nixos-challenge

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#325

Post by deadly_syn »

sph wrote: post #282
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #274

> As we also open the ability for applications to be uploaded in binary form, which is essential for low-friction compatibility with popular language-specific build systems such as Electron/Node, Rust, Go, etc - we also reduce the ability for users to scrutinise the source in the Flathub build system that was used to build their application. ...and their solution is running an antivirus scanner rather than stepping b…

Is NixOS a cult? Every time someone posts about Linux packaging, there's a "you should just use NixOS" comment. Although it provides its own solution to the Linux packaging problem, it's a single solution that comes with a whole load of baggage with it. It is not the panacea its proponents wants us to believe it is.

I have a quote I like throwing around about nix/nixos

"the nix ecosystem is like a cult. Not because it tries to be, but because the ideas are so good you cannot deny them."

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#326

Post by rkangel »

sph wrote: post #282
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #274

> As we also open the ability for applications to be uploaded in binary form, which is essential for low-friction compatibility with popular language-specific build systems such as Electron/Node, Rust, Go, etc - we also reduce the ability for users to scrutinise the source in the Flathub build system that was used to build their application. ...and their solution is running an antivirus scanner rather than stepping b…

Is NixOS a cult? Every time someone posts about Linux packaging, there's a "you should just use NixOS" comment. Although it provides its own solution to the Linux packaging problem, it's a single solution that comes with a whole load of baggage with it. It is not the panacea its proponents wants us to believe it is.

I think in conversation we don't separate the fundamental concepts that Nix implements from the particular implementation.

The fundamental idea is this: Every package is built in a "hermetic" environment that guarantees that the only inputs are the ones you have explicitly specified. Those inputs include tools, source files, compilers, build instructions etc., all specified by a hash. Those inputs themselves can then be packages build in this way, such that everything in your system forms a big Merkle tree.

This approach enables a number of excellent things - you get excellent build reproducibility, you can cache any step you want etc. A lot of the concerns you get with a more conventional system just go away.

People have objections to Nix(OS) - the language, the sporadic documentation, some of the design decisions made, the learning curve etc. But I think those (very reasonable) objections obscure the more interesting debate about the underlying approach and value.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#327

Post by zozbot234 »

ahartmetz wrote: post #298
zozbot234 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GNOME2+ is still around, that's what Mate is. GNOME 3 and later releases has great support for convergence, which is incredibly popular among users - while also being very easy to use via the keyboard, for a more traditional workflow. Ubuntu's Unity interface was built with similar goals, so this is quite far from a pure GNOME thing.

>convergence, which is incredibly popular among users I'm gonna say citation needed on that one. In fact, I have seen many rants about desktop software trying to look like touchscreen software.

Many high-end laptops have touchscreens these days. So the resemblance is quite appropriate. I would like to see a "compact", non-touchscreen mode in case no touch hardware is being used but it should be optional, for users who are okay with that level of fine-grained control.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#328

Post by bandrami »

gapan wrote: post #284
bandrami wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lagging isn't always a bad thing. Users of Debian Stable missed Heartbleed entirely. But this gets to the mindset that bugs me about Flatpak, the magical thinking that regressions don't happen. It's why Alice can't downgrade a system flatpak because it might introduce a vulnerability she uses to attack Bob, but it's absolutely fine if she upgrades to introduce that vulnerability.

While I generally agree with you with respect to the mindset, it is actually possible to downgrade a flatpak [1]. It is rather involved, but possible. I have done it to downgrade cheese (the webcam app) since newer versions don't have the filters that older ones did, at least not for me. [1]: https://itsfoss.com/downgrade-flatpak-packages/

It is! I have to do it with Mixxx because of some weird GL bugs they're having in 2.3.3. But it's a privileged operation compared to upgrading, which is crazy.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#329

Post by bandrami »

littlestymaar wrote: post #262
bandrami wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many different versions of OpenSSL are running on my laptop right now? Who can say? That's the beauty of flatpak: if you sweep the problems of software management under a big enough rug, they go away and never bother you again.

> How many different versions of OpenSSL are running on my laptop right now? Who can say? That's the beauty of flatpak And how many of them are critically out of date because the software maintainer didn't update? Who can say? That's the beauty of flatpack (not). With flatpack you have all the downside of static linking with none of its advantages, how exciting. (and there's nothing as cool as having 7 full linux dis…

I suppose it shouldn't surprise me that the sarcasm of my comment wasn't apparent to everyone.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#330

Post by vasvir »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #228
themodelplumber wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer to see more easily-communicated DE standards and published levels of adherence, rather than moving to the uni-desktop. Like if you want to select a desktop and are kind of new to desktop environments, maybe aim for the (imaginary example here) DE-5 level of standards-adherence. DE-4 and lower might suck in various ways even though they could have cool new features. There are way too many benefits from the…

This has existed for a long time from freedesktop.org, XDG specs, window manager extended hints, and so on. And it's gotten better too - did you know KDE3 had it's own sound mixer daemon? It was called ArtsD. Now we have pulseaudio, or whatever, which is great and cross desktop DBUS made it everywhere as well - I believe initially KDE3 as well did not have DBUS but had something called, DCOP. so - yeah things have im…

and now pipewire...
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