Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#321

Post by zamadatix » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

It's meaningless to talk about prices over time without normalising them to something like income of the group over that same time or at least inflation. E.g. if you look at the price of gas that way it really hasn't changed much in the last 50 years but mpg has gotten a lot better. I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar "not really that different" story for new cars.

Used car prices have really went nuts since mid 2020 though, well beyond what can be normalised out. I'm not sure that's long enough to explain the phenomena on it's own, it certainly started before young people wanted to buy cars in 2021, but if you're looking for where it got more expensive for young drivers the very recent used car price explosion is it.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#322

Post by dkarl » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

My wife and I have friends who can't get their children to learn to drive despite cars being available to them with gas and maintenance paid by their parents.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#323

Post by nradov » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

oweiler wrote: post #294

overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I detest my car. Not only is it generally more expensive than public transport, you always have to set aside money to replace or fix broken parts. Regularly driving to the oil station sucks. Traffic jams, which are more and more commonplace, sucks.

I love my car. Not only is it faster and more convenient than public transport, it is highly reliable and not subject to union strikes. All of the maintenance is quick and cheap. There are multiple fuel stations nearby. Traffic jams do suck, but adaptive cruise control makes them suck a lot less.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#324

Post by cscurmudgeon » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

A brand new Honda Civic comes in at $25k.

https://automobiles.honda.com/civic

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#325

Post by jacknews » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

benjaminwootton wrote: post #20

The young are falling out of love with home ownership, cars, dating, drinking etc. I suspect a lack of money is the common factor.

I'm by far not a millennial, and not cash-strapped, but I've completely fallen out of love with cars now I live somewhere where there is ubiquitous and cheap 'automated' transport, ie public transport, uber, grab, etc. I use a bike when I want to be 'free' to just wander. A car can never be that anyway, in a city.

I get that a car is the only realistic option in the 'great outdoors', but anywhere even slightly dense, they're a pain to buy, to maintain, to drive, to park. If you want the fun of driving, go to a track. If you want to get around, there are often better options. Car ownership seem like an outdated aspiration, IMHO.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#326

Post by UncleEntity » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

Steltek wrote: post #184

runako wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in a short time someone will reply here to tell you how they brought their kids to kindergarten in subzero temperatures with a bike, or how they bike half an hour in rain to buy groceries... Fully expecting that comment, and I look forward to that person describing how they take an elderly parent to the doctor on a bike…

Don't be silly. The elderly parent with bad reflexes and even worse eyesight will drive themselves to the doctor in their equally decrepit car. That's what really happens when you reinforce the belief that cars are a necessity because bikes are some extreme hardship.

You’re joking but I once took an elderly man from the front entrance of his building to the parking lot in my cab because he couldn’t walk that far with his walker (which wasn’t all that far from the back door) and had to help him get behind the wheel to drive off.

Needless to say I waited a bit for him to clear the neighborhood before driving off.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#327

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

[deleted]

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#328

Post by bluGill » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:57 PM UTC

jimbo9991 wrote: post #141

People are really out to lunch if they think this is due to people not wanting cars and preferring public transit. I wish that was the case, but it's 100% because of the dire financial situation.

You didn't read the article. It was about a kid still in high school who had access to a car paid for by her parents. She just didn't bother to get a drivers license despite there being every reason to believe that she would have no problem passing the test.

Sure there are those who cannot afford a car, but that isn't what the article is about.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#329

Post by matwood » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:57 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

I grew up with cheaper cars and never loved them either. I never really saw the point. My wife's parents collected classic vets and I have one in my garage now. It's cool, but it's work to maintain that I'm not into. I would sell it if it didn't have sentimental value for my wife.

So while I'm sure costs today have pushed people who were on the fence, there are so many other things to spend money on now. And cars are just...boring.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#330

Post by thesuitonym » Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 2:57 PM UTC

overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

>I don't get the emotional association of freedom that previous generations did.

Previous generations would just go out for a ride, take the car out on Sunday and and enjoy the scenery. We just don't do that anymore, either because we're more concerned about the environmental effects of driving, or that we just have more interesting things to do.

Not to mention, when this idea of "the freedom of a car" came about, even many smaller cities still had decent transit systems, and were denser. A car truly was freedom, because you could choose to walk downtown, or take the car, or go to the next city over because they have a really nice cafe that you like. Nowadays if you want to go anywhere, unless you're lucky enough to live in a dense city with good transit, there's no choice. It's not freedom anymore, it's a sentence.