Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

xmodtwo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 1001 posts

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#321

Post by phkahler »

undersuit wrote: post #293
drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

>> LGBTQ is a minority

Nope. The number of letters keeps increasing as more people are brought in. In schools these days it's trendy to be anything but straight.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#322

Post by [deleted] »

undersuit wrote: post #312
irrational wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a minority, but if I go into work and announce that I am trans and will now be transitioning and my name is now X, people will fall all over themselves be supportive and congratulating me. It literally happened recently when Chris became Christina at my work. But, if I come in and announce that I have decided to become Catholic or Evangelical or Mormon there will be a lot of awkward silence with maybe some "oka…

Because no one needs to change the way they act around you. Christianity and Catholicism are strongly majority groups in the US. You were already treated as a Christian because that's what the majority of our society is based on.

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#323

Post by clericbob »

gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #151
notsound wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's inaccurate to call a group that has large political parties in essentially every democratic country "counterculture". To me that seems like calling the moderate left counterculture. Maybe neo-nazis and other radicals are, but that's because nobody likes them except for themselves.

Referring to everyone as a nazi or radical that holds a different opinion from one's own is a huge reason why conservatism is growing so quickly as the new counter-culture, especially amongst youth. Societies simply cannot grow and thrive with degenerate movements which are inherently built on being immoral, self-centered, and self-destructive to both one's self and society as a whole.

When the difference of opinion involves the minimization to the point of eradication of specific groups within society, most of which are predisposed to oppose the political views you hold, then there is No Other Term for it than Naziism.

Not everyone I disagree with is a nazi, but everyone who wants all queer people to stop being publicly visible, everyone who would rather immigrants, muslims, and jews to stop coming to the country or become invisible in daily life, anyone who would think about the problems that disabled people have and come to the 'solution' that they should not reproduce? They're Nazis. To call them anything else would do the memories of those already lost a disservice.

And those who buck at being called Nazis should genuinely detach and reexamine their views to see whether they resemble those of the Nazi party. If they don't, if the people calling them Nazis are simply being reactionary, then fine. But to ignore it without giving the most basic consideration to one's own views is deeply foolhardy at best.

Consider for yourself what you term as 'degenerate', and whether those things have any material impact on your life. Consider what solutions that are non-authoritarian for that degeneracy may look like. Is it offering better mental health services? Is it providing community that doesn't shun, but helps rehabilitate maladaptive practices? Is it allowing general differences of opinion on what counts and doesn't count as degenerate behavior? Is it minding your own goddamn business?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#324

Post by jonathanlb »

anon223345 wrote: post #283
ArnoVW wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of counterculture is that it 'counters'. I.e. it inherently searches to change or influence the dominant culture. Your examples do show that we are (thankfully) not a monoculture. But they place themselves outside of our culture, instead trying to influence. A good example of counter culture is BLM, Extinction Rebellion or Occupy Wallstreet. Only thing: those are movements, not cultures. And they are…

BLM is literally on flags, in schools, it’s not counter culture The AP even has it on tests for college credit

I'll believe BLM is mainstream culture when people of color aren't being disproportionately killed by police.

Until then, if police forces are upholding a mainstream concept of law and order resulting in said disproportionality, BLM is countercultural.

Otherwise, if acknowledging the aims of basically what's a human rights movement via flags and spots on AP tests constitutes inclusion into mainstream culture, then the mainstream culture is absurd and perverse.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#325

Post by undersuit »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #190
viraptor wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing the colour of your logo on a certain date is not really "supporting". Corps gonna corp and if changing the logo and publishing some nice post brings more money, they'll do it. (While donating to Republicans at the same time)

If the entire establishment is seeking to ally itself with your movement/culture/etc then that’s a strong indicator that your movement isn’t counter-culture or otherwise subversive. They don’t have to become True Believers IMHO. And FWIW, lots of big companies have DEI departments that preach this stuff internally and market it externally (my wife is a marketing consultant with these big companies and they eat this s…

Not ally, but ingratiate.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#326

Post by irrational »

undersuit wrote: post #312
irrational wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a minority, but if I go into work and announce that I am trans and will now be transitioning and my name is now X, people will fall all over themselves be supportive and congratulating me. It literally happened recently when Chris became Christina at my work. But, if I come in and announce that I have decided to become Catholic or Evangelical or Mormon there will be a lot of awkward silence with maybe some "oka…

Because no one needs to change the way they act around you. Christianity and Catholicism are strongly majority groups in the US. You were already treated as a Christian because that's what the majority of our society is based on.

No, where I live you are considered to be a freak if you are religious. Announcing that you have joined a religion is like announcing you are trans in Alabama 50 years ago.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#327

Post by ROTMetro »

drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

Do these Trads have long standing institutions in their local communities for support of their culture? Why yes, they are called Churches, which don't have to operate underground in the USA like they do in China (expect when they are strange polygamy cults that often skew towards multiple underage wives), and they receive special state recognized privilege such as tax exemptions, within a society and government unabashedly based on 'judeo-christian' values. So, in line with the government under which they live, supported by longstanding cultural institutions well established in the community. Super counter culture.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#328

Post by Mezzie »

xwolfi wrote: post #273
Mezzie wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering lately if it's down to the lack of agency on the part of average people. Like I see that America is in decline and has a decent chance of falling apart in my lifetime (I'm 34), but what exactly am I going to do about it? Nobody in charge cares, they're too busy fiddling. If you can't stop the decline and have to live it, why not try to enjoy what you have while you have it?

These decline stories are universal, and probably no more true than 400 years ago: I am French and live in Hong Kong, do you think decline is not what everyone is talking about in BOTH places ? What is a place not in decline in the eyes of its inhabitants ? It says more about how we view the past than how the present is: we remember only the glorious good times, and forget nobody could read 200 years ago, or nobody c…

I don't think it's bad in the long run either. I think sometimes we need to get rid of old things to make way for new things. It still kind of sucks for those of us who live through it, though. A lot of my frustration is with the current system's inertia as the current decaying institutions do their best to keep alternatives from taking root so all we can do is wait until they're finally weak enough to be ignored. In the meantime, what should we do?

I can only speak to the American (and somewhat the Canadian) situation. I don't know what on the ground sentiment looks like in France or Hong Kong.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#329

Post by ss108 »

drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

As someone who has grown more traditional and religious over the years (I'm 32), I agree.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#330

Post by s1artibartfast »

kderbyma wrote: post #175
pibechorro wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, people living it dont brag about it, gotta keep the poser johnny come lately herds away from ruining it. I have been living and crusing on a sailboat, mosty off anchor rent free when I can, surrounded by many other sailors who rather not see it ruined by Instagram. The key here is the counter culture starts and ends in your heart. Get out and break out of the matrix.

honestly. how many months of rent was that boat? You are privileged ag

How is privilege or money relevant in any way?

Counterculture has nothing to do with either.

Post reply on HN