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What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

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Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#321

Post by freedomben »

51Cards wrote: post #317

Bit of an aside story but I'm in the process of renewing a US work Visa (travel into the US for work often from Canada). I was reminded going through the online form last week that there are 3 full pages of questions like: "Have you ever participated in child trafficing?", "Have you participated in terrorist activities?", "Have you participated in overthrowing a government?", etc. etc. All of the most extreme interna…

Yep that's a favorite US government method. They do the same with the form you have to fill out to buy a gun.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#322

Post by archon1410 »

dbspin wrote: post #282
archon1410 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> destruction of livestock Such a tragic, disgusting euphemism for the murder of millions, without them getting to devour their corpses.

Please don't equate the death of people with the death of non human animals. It's not useful and it's needlessly inflammatory. Murder is defined as the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. The term doesn't apply to deaths in battle, through negligence, or by execution, however distasteful we might find those things. It also doesn't apply to the killing of animals - whatever ones moral perspect…

> Murder is defined as the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Surely this is not as easy as just pointing out the 'correct' definition of words. The difference between "execution", various other forms of killing you mention, and murder can't be so clear that you can easily say "it doesn't apply in this case".

> not useful

More than rhetoric and saying what is useful, sometimes I just feel like I should be saying what I find to be true. After billions and trillions of 'killings', with people saying 'useful', definitinly correct things in response, I just want to be more honest, sometimes—instead of pretending I don't find certain things disgusting, distasteful, vile etc for the sake of garnering 'converts'. I am not running an evangelism program—I'll leave that to the experts. They will perform like the they do regardless of what I say. Maybe honesty is the more useful policy in the long term.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#323

Post by NavinF »

yamazakiwi wrote: post #292
idopmstuff wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, seems like if you're hiring for a low-level retail employee, it's not necessarily a plus if they're the kind of person who deeply analyzes this sort of question instead of giving the superficially correct response. Particularly if this was in an employer-friendly time from a hiring perspective, and they had an endless supply of candidates.

It's common in most roles for employers to check if you are flexible, teachable, and ready for cool-aid.

*kool-aid

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#324

Post by eldaisfish »

51Cards wrote: post #317

Bit of an aside story but I'm in the process of renewing a US work Visa (travel into the US for work often from Canada). I was reminded going through the online form last week that there are 3 full pages of questions like: "Have you ever participated in child trafficing?", "Have you participated in terrorist activities?", "Have you participated in overthrowing a government?", etc. etc. All of the most extreme interna…

I never understood the legal justifications for that. If i answer a visa-related question now, the context for me is the present and past. How can laws cover retroactive lies that were not lies at the time?

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#325

Post by dsr_ »

PuppyTailWags wrote: post #232
foobarbecue wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm like you. An ex of mine claimed that most people never even think about committing suicide. It's hard for me to understand how anyone could avoid such an obvious thought, but I have since seen a lot of evidence that some people's minds really don't explore the possibility space, and when they do it's only along prescribed paths... So I guess it's possible?

I think it is possible and I think it helps to explore what you don't think about. Everyone has things that never/rarely occur to them to consider performing as an action, even people with significantly broader consideration-spheres than others. For example, I've considered suicide but never going pro in ballet. I've considered stealing from my employer but never becoming an opera influencer. I'm less athletic than a…

Unfortunately, now I have considered going pro in ballet (result: not going to happen), becoming an opera influencer (result: highly unlikely but not absolutely impossible; can I reasonably work towards the return of the comic operetta? Probably not without writing one. I could manage the book but not the music. Who do I know who might want to write the music?) and I have frequently considered but discarded the likelihood of vaulting over most fences and climbing most trees.

Thanks.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#326

Post by [deleted] »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #307
CapmCrackaWaka wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have this backwards - Apparently, Americans are considered more brutally honest and direct in negotiations than other cultures: https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-negotiate-around-the-...

That doesn't mean that Americans are more brutally honest in social interactions. In my experience, Americans commonly (admittedly, not always) avoid topics and observations which they think a listening party would find uncomfortable.

[deleted]

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#327

Post by favorited »

anthomtb wrote: post #249
technothrasher wrote: post #67

"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…

My first clearance interview, about 10 years ago, it was all going along just fine. I had the standard litany of "bad" things any early 20-something American guy gets into - a few mushroom trips, an alcohol ticket, friends from foreign countries. No deal-breakers so long as you are honest and I answered honestly. The only stumbling block came when the interviewer asked "have you smoked marijuana?". I truthfully answe…

Not related to a security clearance, but a coworker at a summer job in high school was applying to be a police officer. He was told to answer "yes" when they asked if he had ever smoked pot, because anyone answering "no" was presumed to be dishonest.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#328

Post by 51Cards »

eldaisfish wrote: post #324
51Cards wrote: post #317

Bit of an aside story but I'm in the process of renewing a US work Visa (travel into the US for work often from Canada). I was reminded going through the online form last week that there are 3 full pages of questions like: "Have you ever participated in child trafficing?", "Have you participated in terrorist activities?", "Have you participated in overthrowing a government?", etc. etc. All of the most extreme interna…

I never understood the legal justifications for that. If i answer a visa-related question now, the context for me is the present and past. How can laws cover retroactive lies that were not lies at the time?

I should have noted that their intent is to cover your past and present, so that if in future they find out that in your youth you trafficed/postituted humans and farmed drugs to fund over throwing a goverment through terrorist activities.... even if all of those were outside the US jursidiction, they can still yank your Visa for having lied.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#329

Post by leoqa »

notch656c wrote: post #281
leoqa wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not the case. Law enforcement background checks are more intense than clearance, and drug use policies are very black-white. The general principle is that you must be unimpeachable such that your testimony is valid in court.

In what country is this the case that police have unimpeachable history?

I’m mostly referring to federal law enforcement, I’m not familiar with local police suitability (but I’m guessing it’s not nearly as well resourced as the feds).

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#330

Post by adrianmonk »

adonig wrote: post #278
everly wrote: post #81

"Lady, this case has cost the government thousands of dollars. It has been the top priority in our office for the last six weeks. We traced the glasses to your son from the prescription by examining the files of nearly every optometrist in San Diego." It apparently didn't occur to them that if I were a real Japanese spy, I might have brought the glasses with me from headquarters. First of all, absolutely hilarious -…

"It apparently didn't occur to them that if I were a real Japanese spy, I might have brought the glasses with me from headquarters." I'm not a criminologist but I think they might have classified the glasses and the glasses case and maybe found enough evidence indicating that the glasses have been made in the U.S. or maybe even in San Diego. Even if they didn't, then it's still their job to do exactly what they did a…

Also, it's plausible that a Japanese spy would buy new glasses in the US. It would probably be smart. Why take a chance that someone will notice your slightly unusual-looking glasses? Just get new ones that look normal.
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