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What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

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Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#271

Post by flatline »

trifurcate wrote: post #260
flatline wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of you who are like I used to be and are just honest in an unfiltered way that sometimes caused you trouble: don’t think of it as lying, think of it as keeping secrets. You can also view it as maintaining a personal boundary, which is not something people of my generation were brought up with. We all keep secrets to some extent: shameful memories we do not readily recount; job confidentiality; things we onl…

> You can also view it as maintaining a personal boundary, which is not something people of my generation were brought up with. Which generation do you belong to, out of curiosity?

I am presently 46 years old.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#272

Post by adbachman »

grishka wrote: post #82
technothrasher wrote: post #67

"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…

My only experience with serious US government forms was applying for a tourist visa. This form also has some bonkers checkboxes like "do you plan to commit any crimes in the US". Also the entry form they give you on your flight deserves a mention. This one has "did you handle livestock in the last X months" repeated like 3 times in different phrasing. Not as stupid as the first one, but... why? Why is that question t…

I can say confidently that asking potential refugees--who were born and have lived in a refugee camp for their entire lives--if they intend to pirate software when they are in the US is hilarious to refugee officers, too. In some languages it takes a lot of explanation to even get to a yes or no.

It's exclusively asked as a, "turns out you lied, that's perjury" question to make deportation easier in criminal cases.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#273

Post by godelski »

jstanley wrote: post #105
deutschepost wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a pretty good interpretation of why these questions exist. If you say that you don't plan to commit crimes and then commit one, you have essentially lied on the form. In some cases at least it is way easier for the state to deport someone if they lie on their immigration form. But if the question wasn't there you would have to go through the whole legal process. On the other hand, if you answer yes to this qu…

But you might legitimately not be planning to commit any crimes, but then change your mind once you get there. The fact that you committed a crime after saying you weren't planning to do so does not mean that you were lying.

Or worse, what if you accidentally commit a crime? Not all crimes are obvious and something that can be normal in one country can be criminal in another. For example, jay walking (crossing the street not at an intersection (when an intersection is not reasonably near by)). Or something else silly like that.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#274

Post by rjsw »

bell-cot wrote: post #20
petesergeant wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before an entire local FBI office spent even a day on this case (let alone 6 weeks), maybe they should have asked some of those professionals to look at the supposed "Japanese code key" page? That sounds far less exciting than scrambling to find a fifth columnist and potentially being hailed as a hero.

True. But most people, after they've been grown-ups for a while, figure out that "find the winning lotto ticket on the sidewalk and get rich" is not how life actually works. And with a war on...the FBI's kids, simpletons, day dreamers, and glory hounds should have been closely supervised by real grown-ups. Or transferred to lines of work better suited to their talents.

Maybe the grown-ups were doing something else during the war.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#275

Post by applejacks »

idopmstuff wrote: post #259
CapmCrackaWaka wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't pretend to know what the original test writers had in mind. However, I actually think this question serves a different purpose than to determine if you had actually considered stealing from an employer. These types of questions are better suited to determine if someone can walk the corporate walk and talk the corporate talk. They don't want a low level employee to go off on a customer, or make rude remarks, o…

Yeah, seems like if you're hiring for a low-level retail employee, it's not necessarily a plus if they're the kind of person who deeply analyzes this sort of question instead of giving the superficially correct response. Particularly if this was in an employer-friendly time from a hiring perspective, and they had an endless supply of candidates.

> they're the kind of person who deeply analyzes this sort of question

Clearly they didn't deeply analyze the question in the relevant context. Answering "yes" to this is high school level "edginess".

One needn't condescend, as there are equivalent questions at all levels of hiring, all with equally obvious (in)correct answers. No, you shouldn't answer "what is your biggest challenge" with "not showing up to work drunk", even if it is indeed your biggest challenge, and one that you work hard to successfully overcome every day.

Another commenter refers to this as "walking the corporate walk" but I think it's more "having an understanding of context and appropriate levels of sharing" and it applies at all times in life.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#276

Post by the_af »

flatline wrote: post #219
the_af wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My mind never stops and there's virtually nothing in the world I have not "considered" One piece of advice my mom gave me which I always follow is: don't tell them (a company/job/boss) anything that could be used against you. There's no need to be truthful here, this isn't a consultation with your doctor. So lie, tell them you're healthy, you never had any problems with anyone ever, never admit to anything. Truth i…

For those of you who are like I used to be and are just honest in an unfiltered way that sometimes caused you trouble: don’t think of it as lying, think of it as keeping secrets. You can also view it as maintaining a personal boundary, which is not something people of my generation were brought up with. We all keep secrets to some extent: shameful memories we do not readily recount; job confidentiality; things we onl…

Yes! Like I clarified in another comment, I didn't really meant "lying" but "not volunteering/selectively withholding information".

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#277

Post by adastra22 »

mcv wrote: post #29

I'm so that guy. Not for security clearance, but medical questionaires. I always fill them in with total honesty, listing the most minor and irrelevant details if they fit the question. My wife keeps telling me not to fill that stuff in, and she's quite the opposite, giving the preferred answer everywhere, even when I think: "but shouldn't you mention that thing?" Of the two of us, she's the one who has tons of exper…

> My wife keeps telling me not to fill that stuff in, and she's quite the opposite, giving the preferred answer everywhere

This might literally kill her.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#278

Post by adonig »

everly wrote: post #81

"Lady, this case has cost the government thousands of dollars. It has been the top priority in our office for the last six weeks. We traced the glasses to your son from the prescription by examining the files of nearly every optometrist in San Diego." It apparently didn't occur to them that if I were a real Japanese spy, I might have brought the glasses with me from headquarters. First of all, absolutely hilarious -…

"It apparently didn't occur to them that if I were a real Japanese spy, I might have brought the glasses with me from headquarters."

I'm not a criminologist but I think they might have classified the glasses and the glasses case and maybe found enough evidence indicating that the glasses have been made in the U.S. or maybe even in San Diego.

Even if they didn't, then it's still their job to do exactly what they did and they were successful. They found the real owner of the glasses and were able to confirm, that the person isn't a potentially dangerous enemy spy. That case can be closed and they can do something else.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#279

Post by MisterBastahrd »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #149

When I moved to Canada, at age 16-17 I initially failed a lot of job applications at places like Staples, Future Shop, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. For some reason, many of them had a type of "Corporate Personality Test" on their application, and asked the same "Have you ever considered stealing from your employer?" to which I would cheerfully answer "Yes". Apparently this was an automatic deal-breaker; there was no f…

Probably because you were overthinking it.

You're thinking in terms of grey while they're testing to ensure that you have at least a basic understanding of black and white.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#280

Post by photochemsyn »

foobarbecue wrote: post #168
NikolaNovak wrote: post #149

When I moved to Canada, at age 16-17 I initially failed a lot of job applications at places like Staples, Future Shop, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc. For some reason, many of them had a type of "Corporate Personality Test" on their application, and asked the same "Have you ever considered stealing from your employer?" to which I would cheerfully answer "Yes". Apparently this was an automatic deal-breaker; there was no f…

I'm like you. An ex of mine claimed that most people never even think about committing suicide. It's hard for me to understand how anyone could avoid such an obvious thought, but I have since seen a lot of evidence that some people's minds really don't explore the possibility space, and when they do it's only along prescribed paths... So I guess it's possible?

That might be related to why it's such a taboo subject - people fear that even mentioning the word 'suicide' will cause some people to starting making deliberate plans to end their own life. (It's certainly a rather depressing topic, not suitable for small talk or dinner conversation, and people who are always bringing it up probably could use some therapist time.)

The effect is similar to the statement, "don't think of a blue elephant" - it's pretty hard to not immediately think of some kind of a blue elephant (Dumbo the Disney character? A wild African elephant that got blue mud all over it? A painted elephant in a Indian potentate's parade? Etc.)

Psychologists use the term 'ideation' to distinguish between merely thinking about a topic, versus obsessing over a topic, making plans related to a topic, and so on.

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