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Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

reuters.com

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Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#321

Post by ch4s3 »

DenisM wrote: post #258
ch4s3 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also proactively chose in the wake of the 2003 invasion of Iraq to avoid importing more natural from the US. Schroeder and co wanted to reconnect Western Europe to Russia and avoid any dependence on the U.S. I think we now all see who the more reliable partner for Western Europe has been. [edit] if you’re going to disagree, I’d be interested to hear your specific objections. The shift away from US natural gas is…

I’d be interested to see that documentation if you have it handy.

Sadly I’m on my phone and some stuff I want is locked up in Jstor , but look into the France-Germany-Russia troika in the run up to the 2003 invasion. Schroeder was pushing a bigger gas deal with Russia at the time and selling it on the basis of European independence.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#322

Post by hef19898 »

odiroot wrote: post #297
rr888 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia and Germany have been at war for centuries. The last few decades when their economies became co-dependent was a blissful peace. Beware the long term consequences of buiding a new wall between them.

Sorry but from the perspective of Central Europe, the times when Russian and Germany are friendly, have been the most dreadful. We barely avoided it this time.

So, those times were worse than WW1, WW2? Interesting perspextive, that...

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#323

Post by retinaros »

j-pb wrote: post #295
origin_path wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that this is just a matter of political will is nonsensical in the extreme, it's impossible to understand how anyone can believe this except via massive propaganda. Here's a graph of German solar/wind power production: https://energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&... Notice how it frequently drops to near zero . For example the morning of the 22nd where total wind+solar production in Germany w…

You accuse other of irrationality, yet you prop up a straw-man that's been debunked over and over again. Nobody argues that renewables deliver peak power all of the time. The goal is to have enough capacity and intermediary storage to be able to deliver constant peak power with both combined. The current economic situation would be much better had we spend all our money on renewables and storage instead of nuclear an…

there is no storage capability that would allow europe to work on renewable it doesnt scale just look at how your storage batteries are made! look ar how lithium is harvested please…

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#324

Post by godelski »

janef0421 wrote: post #309
godelski wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nuclear power should be subsidized as necessary for the exact same reason healthcare is: energy security is a critical matter. Not that I disagree, but money is not an infinite resource. So yeah, it does matter. Maybe I'm interpreting your comment as more dismissive than it actually is.

Money is not infinite, at least for practical purposes, but it is socially constructed, and consequently not a hard constraint. If a nation has the means to obtain the necessary resources and labour, it will be able to build and run nuclear power plants.

This seems a bit naive. While money is a social construct it is also a proxy for resources. Also, to be clear, just because things are socially constructed doesn't mean they aren't useful. Most things are social constructs.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#325

Post by mrtksn »

sbf501 wrote: post #207
mrtksn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This place started to think in memes I feel. Every issue comes with the automated arguments, the same ones every time. If the topic is energy someone must write the "they shouldn't have closed those Nuclear power plants, silly environmentalist". Anyway, France is full blown nuclear state and they are having energy issues too, because as it turns out nuclear power plants require long regular maintenance periods. Maybe…

You provide such a wonderful list of factors that may/may-not have contributed to a this crisis that I went cross-eyed and drooled a little at the depth of the complexity. But isn't it a little ironic that you end by blaming the culture war? We're literally a part of it, and it is an enormous obstacle to enacting policies in a rational way. It's not something we can bail-out on, like people fleeing to Canada when the…

I'm not anti-nuclear and I don't have a problem discussing it as an option. I have a problem with repetitive arguments that push an agenda though. The "Only if they hadn't closed those few plants everything would have been perfect" argument is not only false but is pushing an agenda that is part of the culture war.

Notice the OP doesn't even mention the environmentalists etc. but the comment is instantly recognisable. It's the same talking point that needs to be repeated every single time.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#326

Post by mc32 »

avgcorrection wrote: post #280
Rexxar wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show everybody that you can to it on other pipelines while doing it only on a currently useless one (I answer the question by giving one possible advantage, I have no opinion on the real cause at the moment)

As a show of force I will destroy one of my own battalions. Watch out world: I could do the same to yours!

Exactly. Except for Intelligence agencies, we do not know who did it. However, the media consensus is that the enemy did self sabotage to show us they can do bad things? We know they very well can do bad things. They do not have to prove it.

Hell, GWBush was an inch away from approving tactical nuke use in Afghanistan but ultimately talked out of it and opted for the MOAB, but now a cornered rat thinking about it is now crazy? Does that mean GWB was crazy too?

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#327

Post by hef19898 »

usrusr wrote: post #135
rr888 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia and Germany have been at war for centuries. The last few decades when their economies became co-dependent was a blissful peace. Beware the long term consequences of buiding a new wall between them.

But times when Germany/predecessors and Russia hand been allied haven't exactly been peaceful either. History is the worst foreign policy advisor of them all.

The last time nowadays Russia and nowadays Germany were allies was at the end of the Napoleanic Wars and during Bismarcks, IMHO ingenious, coalition policy between the large European powers. Back then we talk about actual Emperors. After Bismarck, things deteriorated to WW1, followed by WW2, in between both, the USSR ans Nazi-Germany were short term allies for military build up and at the end to split Poland. After that, both sides were totally not allies. And after that we had the Cold War, which had Eastern Europe under Communist rule but without any active wars. Those were fought in Korea and Vietnam, withkut German participation.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#328

Post by Jon_Lowtek »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #298
Jon_Lowtek wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, France is full blown nuclear state ... ... with a fuel cycle that goes through a breeder in Seversk, Russia ... with no long term plan for low radioactive waste and contaminated equipment ... with almost no uranium deposits worth exploiting left as is true for all of europa

No, what is sent to Seversk is not just the spent fuel, but also radioactive material that was used during the treatment of the spent fuel. No, the fuel cycle doesn't depend on Seversk, the contract from EDF was signed in 2018 (and EDF says that nothing was sent yet) No, this is not even the fuel cycle, Orano signed a contract with Rosatom so that they could send spent URT and Rosatom uses it for their own reactors.…

>> No, the fuel cycle doesn't depend on Seversk + "Literally selling spent fuel" (instead of burying it)

well, if you put it that way, then the fuel cycle doesn't even exist at all, france just imports fresh uranium from Russia, Nigeria, Kazhakstan and Australia and sells spent fuel to Russia.

> and EDF says that nothing was sent yet

under that new contract maybe, here is an article from 2009 in which EDF "told news agency AFP that it is only “recyclable uranium from fuel processing at EDF nuclear power stations that is transported to Russia to be enriched.” - rfi.fr/actuen/articles/118/article_5481.asp

> No, you are lying once again. The uranium deposits are not worth exploiting

that is literally what i said. They are not worth exploiting

> So, no, your sources are Greenpeace and are lying.

that is just low effort insults, here have an IAEA uranium deposit database: https://infcis.iaea.org/UDEPO/ France largest "reserves" are the trace amounts in the rocks around a mine they closed 21 years ago. Even if the price rises to a point where exploitation of those trace amounts becomes worthwhile again, there are no large reserves in europa, we are talking a demand in the thousands of tons per year.

The nuclear industry in europa depends on imports, stop peddling some makebelieve about large untapped reserves with which europa could theoretically become energy independent if they would just use them. It is nonsensical

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#329

Post by hef19898 »

avgcorrection wrote: post #319
hef19898 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because the war Ukraine was no valid reason to revise whatever plan you had before...

Hmm? Could you be more coy and less direct in your replies, please? Did Russia transform from a cosmopolitan, Western European-loving, tolerant nation with fantastic relations to the EU overnight into a savage brute in Feb 2022? Or was it always at least a little bit backwards, clearly not democratic, sphere of influence-envious, and had already arguably been at indirect war with Ukraine since 2014 ? To claim that Ge…

Since Europe has not enough natural resources to be self reliant, and the US only has enough oil gas due to fracking, there is no alternative other than dealing with oppressive, human rights ignoring regimes. Iran is under sanctions, the UAE and Saudi are by no means better the Putin at his worst days (we in the West just don't give a damn about the war in Sudan and Yemen). And yes, closer relationships to Russia are, well have been, a good thing.

Russia decided to throw all that away in a failed bid to keep NATO away from their borders. Or rather Putin did.

Re: Europe braces for mobile network blackouts

#330

Post by landemva »

m348e912 wrote: post #249
landemva wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No options now to turn on the pipeline. I recall USA sabotaged a USSR pipeline way back in 1980s. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/02/27/r...

The way the article reads it's not clear if the US sabotaged software that was ultimately stolen by the Russians and used on pipelines or if the US intentionally and covertly transferred the flawed technology through more legitimate channels.

I recall it as USA found out from a spy the shopping list, and created sabotaged items that would be stolen. Supposedly the explosion shockwaves were expected by a few USA insiders. I have yet to read the referenced book, though it looks like a fascinating (though white-washed) read.
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