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The NFT market bubble has popped?

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Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#321

Post by maaaaattttt »

maaaaattttt wrote: post #62
phist_mcgee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a little correction. NFTs, and crypto in general are critiqued as ponzis, but they are more accurately described as pyramid schemes, whereby early adopters rake in the lion's share of profits. Ponzis are where later investor money is used to pay out early investor money in a fraudulent never ending cycle.

Honest question: I fail to see to difference between this (the pyramid scheme part) and let's say buying stock in early Apple or Google?

Thank you for the clarifications.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#322

Post by meiraleal »

dleslie wrote: post #313
meiraleal wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no crimes with debit and credit card? They are still cash.

They are safer than paper cash or crypto; credit and debit cards have fraud protection, and banks have account security protections.

They have now, they didn't have in the past, and is still an annoyance to the customers often. Also online banking apps, SMS phising, etc.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#323

Post by nkrisc »

foobiekr wrote: post #255
nkrisc wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very cynical about cryptocurrency but that's a stretch. Criminals did that damage to companies and infrastructure, and they would do it without cryptocurrency if it was worth it. I guess dollars sell drugs to kids too and fuel murder for hire.

Anyone who doesn’t think cryptocurrency has facilitated monetizing cyberattacks needs to wake up. You can be pro-crypto and still acknowledge that the rise of ransomware has hone hand in hand with the ability to monetize it at dramatically lowered risk. This, in turn, broadened to scope of companies that were interesting to attack.

You could have cryptocurrency without ransomware attacks, and you could have ransomware attacks without cryptocurrency . It is disingenuous to say cryptocurrency is directly responsible. Cryptocurrency didn’t cause ransomware, it made it worth the effort on the part of the attackers, but so could have a different confluence of events.

Criminals will abuse any technology that benefits them.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#324

Post by unionpivo »

erulabs wrote: post #252

The overwhelmingly negative attitude towards technology on HN lately is upsetting and nauseating. If you don’t like NFTs, don’t buy them (I don’t). If you don’t like some startups product, don’t sign up. In the Boom thread there are people suggesting it’s fraudulent that they’ve taken longer than originally suggested to build supersonic aircraft. I’d very much like to know who elected the naysayers. There are tons an…

> The overwhelmingly negative attitude towards technology on HN lately is upsetting and nauseating. If you don’t like NFTs, don’t buy them (I don’t).

What new technology ? There is nothing in NFT's that is new technology vise.

The only thing "new" is the money/value part.

Some people (myself included ) see that as an attempt to subvert technology.

To me watching NFT's are like watching TV televangelist. It bothers me that people use technology I love (web, internet, cryptography,...) and subvert it into what are in my opinion scams.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#325

Post by silicon2401 »

andrepd wrote: post #302
silicon2401 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes it a moot point. The common thread across capitalist, socialist, monarchist, whatever-ist societies with suffering is that humans are involved. Neither capitalism nor socialism is inherently bad; some humans are, especially in aggregate, hence we always need ways to enforce order. The fatal flaw to any utopian society is that the more it depends on trust, the more some people will abuse it and coordinate…

I don't understand your point. The corollary to "there is no perfect society, suffering always exist" is not "therefore all societies are equally bad". No, liberalism is an improvement on feudalism. Capitalist “liberal democracies” are an improvement on capitalist absolute monarchies. All I'm saying is we can do much better than this.

You can't go back and forth between theoretical and real-life. I don't accept the claim that democracies are always better than monarchies. Monarchies and authoritarian states are great in theory, if they enforce the worldview you want. Look at how America's republicanism has allowed its own self-degradation through lobbying and regulatory capture. My first point is that everything in the real world is case by case and it's intellectually dishonest to go for such grade-school arguments as saying that democracy = good, monarch = bad. Capitalism can be good or bad. Monarchies can be good or bad, etc. My second point is that the only common theme is that some humans are bad actors, therefore it doesn't matter how your society functions, there will always be people who exploit the system. The only reason you think monarchies is bad is because historical monarchs have been abusive. But there have also been abusive democratic leaders. Humans are the problem, not the systems we create.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#326

Post by dleslie »

meiraleal wrote: post #322
dleslie wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are safer than paper cash or crypto; credit and debit cards have fraud protection, and banks have account security protections.

They have now, they didn't have in the past, and is still an annoyance to the customers often. Also online banking apps, SMS phising, etc.

Still more fraud detection and theft deterrence than the alternatives.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#327

Post by bart_spoon »

rsynnott wrote: post #162
bart_spoon wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that not describe crypto? Bitcoin is only making millionaires if more and more late investors are buying in and driving up the price for earlier investors.

A true Ponzi scheme requires intent and organisation (at least at some point; some things normally categorized as Ponzi schemes start off with the intent of being legitimate hedge funds or similar). Crypto things, particularly bitcoin, tend to behave rather like a self-organizing Ponzi scheme, but pedantically, they're not one, quite.

There's a joke in there about crypto and decentralization.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#328

Post by almostkorean »

Fern_Blossom wrote: post #64
vesinisa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, exactly. The original painting has value exactly because it is not a copy. And "owning" the first tweet ever sent? What does that even mean?? At the end of the day "ownership" mostly has any meaning within the legal system. NFTs seem to create something akin to a shadow copyright but which makes no sense. Oh well, maybe I am just a simpleton.

>And "owning" the first tweet ever sent? What does that even mean?? No, no, no. It's worse than you think. An NFT is more like a plastic cup with Pikachu printed on it. You don't own the rights to Pikachu. You just bought a cup with his face on it. With NFTs, there is no contract to own the actual "thing". Just simply the piece of "merch" (the NFT) with the likeness associated with it. Except, a plastic cup still has…

This is true for many NFTs but not all. For example, cryptopunks, autoglyphs, meebits only exist on-chain. Then there are NFTs like artblocks.io where the code to generate your NFT is on-chain and the output is determined by the transaction hash.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#329

Post by exporectomy »

woah wrote: post #236
vesinisa wrote: post #5

I am hardly surprised. While Bitcoin maybe had theoretical uses as a currency a decade ago, the NFT hype never made any sense whatsoever to begin with.

NFTs bring the willfull ignorance of the anti-crypto crowd into stark relief. I had a roommate 10 years ago who was a video artist. She would do gallery showings and sell videos for hundreds of thousands of dollars. She had been doing it since the 90's. Her videos could be downloaded from her website, so what was she selling? Certificates of authenticity, that certified that the holder owned the art. All criticisms o…

Not to mention stamp collectors, antique collectors, art buyers, retro video game collectors, etc. Most of this stuff only has value for being an original thing with limited supply. You can get all the practical value from cheap copies. Also gold, diamonds, etc.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#330

Post by andrepd »

silicon2401 wrote: post #325
andrepd wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your point. The corollary to "there is no perfect society, suffering always exist" is not "therefore all societies are equally bad". No, liberalism is an improvement on feudalism. Capitalist “liberal democracies” are an improvement on capitalist absolute monarchies. All I'm saying is we can do much better than this.

You can't go back and forth between theoretical and real-life. I don't accept the claim that democracies are always better than monarchies. Monarchies and authoritarian states are great in theory, if they enforce the worldview you want. Look at how America's republicanism has allowed its own self-degradation through lobbying and regulatory capture. My first point is that everything in the real world is case by case a…

Disagree entirely. Ironically it's your "systems don't matter, it just depends on whether the people in charge are good or not" that is grade-school level. x)

First, I didn't say democracy good, monarchy bad... My point is precisely that western bourgeois democracy is pretty flawed. It is however better than the absolutist monarchies of the 1700s and 1800s.

>some humans are bad actors, therefore it doesn't matter how your society functions, there will always be people who exploit the system. The only reason you think monarchies is bad is because historical monarchs have been abusive. But there have also been abusive democratic leaders. Humans are the problem, not the systems we create.

That's just silly. A well designed system has institutions, checks and balances that prevent bad actors from wrecking the system. An absolutist monarchy has none. Can't you see how that matters? Taking your argument to its conclusion, then absolute monarchies, bourgeois democracies, direct democracies, soviet-style totalitarianism... it's all the same! All it matters is if you're lucky that the people in charge are good.

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