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The NFT market bubble has popped?

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Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#291

Post by cryptica »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #183
cryptica wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few points I could come up with off the top of my head: - Users could buy and trade domain names using cryptocurrency tokens within the same system without relying on centralized payment gateways. - No need to rely on a central authority like ICANN to decide who can control what gTLDs. - Could make way for entirely new security models for TLS certificates; no need to trust certificate authorities. Certificates…

Websites would also lose their domain if the admin loses the private key, or it gets stolen. There would be no authority to return control to the rightful owner. I don't think most web actors would be ready to accept that massive drawback.

You can have multisignature wallets so that you only need signatures from 2/3 of members. It would be unlikely for many people to lose their keys.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#292

Post by silicon2401 »

andrepd wrote: post #286
silicon2401 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of idealistic misunderstanding of history do you have that non-capitalist societies were some kumbaya utopia? Korea historically had slavery and extreme class differences. Europe had nobility and serfs who were not far off from slaves (and could be tortured or executed). Ancient Sparta and Persia had slaves and going way back into biblical times (though this still happens today in some places), people could…

He said some non-capitalist societies , not all non-capitalist societies that have ever existed .

Which makes it a moot point. The common thread across capitalist, socialist, monarchist, whatever-ist societies with suffering is that humans are involved. Neither capitalism nor socialism is inherently bad; some humans are, especially in aggregate, hence we always need ways to enforce order. The fatal flaw to any utopian society is that the more it depends on trust, the more some people will abuse it and coordinate with others to abuse it. The less trust you have, the more force you need to enforce your worldview on others (which radical liberals and conservatives essentially push for). There is no magical world where we all live in harmony

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#293

Post by stjohnswarts »

powerapple wrote: post #6

One thing I have noticed when listening to the interviews of NFT companies is that, when describing NFT is the future, the arguments from these founders are examples of people/artists made money by selling NFT online. It has become more and more a theme for cryptocurrency technology has well: the reason you should be in is that other people have made money rather than the benefit of the technology itself. It is not a…

They all sound like used car sales people to me that's the biggest warning sign I've seen.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#294

Post by prepend »

vmception wrote: post #260
prepend wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If etherium gets down to femtocents per transaction then that would be cool. A usable distributed ledger would be nice for many purposes. But at dollars per transaction, there’s no real use cases. Imagine if my sql db was free but charged me $10 for any write transaction. That would suck. When the price gets to an operational level, people will use it. I think the price it will eventually get to is Napster/BitTorrent…

Charged me $10 *and doesn’t charge me for storage I dump a ton of crap on blockchains and just set the transaction fee low until someone takes it Also check out gas tokens as a concept, you can prebuy gas when gas prices are low and subsidize your future time sensitive transactions when gas prices are high

I’ve dumped stuff at low transaction fees and had it stay there forever.

Try setting 1 cent as your transaction fee and see if anyone picks that up.

This works great if you already prebought way back when, but is not suitable for any current use case I can think of. And certainly not usable by many.

There’s not many situations where $10 for a few bytes is needed, even with the cool feature of free storage forever.

For comparison, 1GB is 2 cents per year on AWS deep glacier. And I trust AWS to be around in a hundred years more than ethereum. Not to mention that storing 1GB costs a fortune in transaction fees.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#295

Post by prepend »

cturner wrote: post #130
prepend wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your examples are good cases for any registry. NFTs aren’t particularly good for this as they are expensive in their current form. Any transaction should be very low cost to process and there would be no value to the NFT itself, but to the thing tracked by the NFT. So I think the right play would be to not speculate and wait for a government to use blockchain/NFT for registries. The land registry is a good id…

Here are the qualities that I think are special about this model: (1) the platform is organic; (2) critical mass kicks in pretty quickly. Organic: it would be unrealistic to attempt to solve the wine problem as a one-off registry. But once the infrastructure exists, it becomes trivial to solve the wine problem. You point out that many of the individual scenarios could be solved by a conventional registry. This is goo…

Your use case is much cheaper with just a wiki. The NFT layer only adds lots of cost and speculation.

Or a single trusted entity is more likely to organically arise than an NFT market solution.

The issue that these sound decent in theory, but in practice they suck because of costs. And for sustainability, I’d rather deal with the government to run it.

If they would arise organically, they would have already. The problem is that the incentives is for jerks trying to make money than people to collaborate.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#296

Post by prepend »

Applejinx wrote: post #199
prepend wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather pay someone to take my turn for me. There’s a whole theory of competitive advantage [0] where I’m better doing some things than others. I’d rather do the thing I’m good at and use the money to pay others to do stuff I’m marginally worse off doing. I’ve lived in communities for a few decades and every day it crosses my mind that I want to establish a price for someone to come clean my toilet. [0] https:…

When my parents were alive, in their retirement, they'd hire 'Merry Maids' to come and clean for them. As near as I could tell, they were very nice about it, and I remember being over there and the amusing interplay as the maids tried very hard to not impose on the family visiting going on, while the kids tried just as hard to arrange where they were at to not get in the way of the maids :) it was a very Alphonse and…

> would you freak out if the maid took a dump in your toilet AND then cleaned it? That cuts to the heart of whether they're a fellow human doing exchange-value with you as a true equal, or whether they're a class that should not be using the employer's private toilet.

Ha, no of course not. I also think it’s not a very good test because almost no one would care. Me not being able to afford to buy things or not being skilled enough to command a high wage doesn’t mean I’m not equal as a human being, it just means I can’t afford things.

I would expect that maid services are very strict because some people are super picky about their toilets. I know people who won’t let family members use their toilet, much less some stranger. It’s not worth the risk for a maid service to lose the work. Not really a good indicator of valuing humans.

Maybe a better test would be whether I allow a maid to drink from my water or something like that.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#297

Post by prepend »

southerntofu wrote: post #139
prepend wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather pay someone to take my turn for me. There’s a whole theory of competitive advantage [0] where I’m better doing some things than others. I’d rather do the thing I’m good at and use the money to pay others to do stuff I’m marginally worse off doing. I’ve lived in communities for a few decades and every day it crosses my mind that I want to establish a price for someone to come clean my toilet. [0] https:…

> I would rather pay someone to take my turn for me. Yeah, that's precisely what's wrong in our society that it appears normal to pay for inconveniences to disappear. Except of course for most of us who don't have money so we get paid shitty wages for making other people's inconveniences disappear. If such jobs were the highest paid, that would be less of a problem of course. But the highest paid jobs under capitalis…

> that's precisely what's wrong in our society that it appears normal to pay for inconveniences to disappear.

I disagree, it’s what is awesome about our society. It’s a feature, not a bug.

I’ve gotten all the character I’ll get from cleaning toilets and I’m happy that someone else is willing to do it for me.

There’s no way toilet cleaner will be a high paying job because the skill set is so low. As with most manual labor. Low skill set means lots of people will do it means low wages.

I understand how to clean a toilet and the time involved. I choose not to do it. I won’t make me a better person to do it. I have considered why I’m reluctant and understand pretty completely. I grok why I don’t want to clean toilets. I’m comfortable with my understanding in this area.

It’s also ok that we value these experiences differently. I don’t have to convince you to pay someone to clean your toilet. I just have to convince you to continue letting me, and others, pay for toilet cleaning.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#298

Post by imtringued »

nly wrote: post #28
powerapple wrote: post #6

One thing I have noticed when listening to the interviews of NFT companies is that, when describing NFT is the future, the arguments from these founders are examples of people/artists made money by selling NFT online. It has become more and more a theme for cryptocurrency technology has well: the reason you should be in is that other people have made money rather than the benefit of the technology itself. It is not a…

Imho it stems from a lack of understanding and faith in the financial services industry, probably exacerbated by the financial crisis. A large % of people now believe that the finance industry only exists to work against them and make an elite minority rich. There's a strong sense of "Fuck You, I Got Mine" from the last generation, so the current generation is saying "Fine, I'm going to invent my own system... with B…

"I will never own a home" going by reddit and certain message boards the sentiment is pretty much "if boomers are rentseeking with land and shiny rocks then I'll rent seek with money"

Land in desirable locations is a scarce good and land owners extract an economic rent via rising land prices which makes housing unaffordable. That same dynamic exists with cryptocurrencies with a limited supply. You buy early and the value of the cryptocurrency rises as more people start using them.

In both cases the hoarding instinct is drowning out productive activity. When land becomes too expensive you cannot afford to live on it. When Bitcoin becomes too expensive you cannot afford to pay with it. Of course this is under the assumption that you need a fixed amount of land and the equivalent to that would be that you also need a fixed amount of Bitcoin.

The primary difference though is that with land people voluntarily decide to move there because the location is attractive. Cryptocurrencies aren't popular enough to justify choosing them over government currencies. People are buying cryptocurrencies because they are going up.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#299

Post by lotsofpulp »

prepend wrote: post #297
southerntofu wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would rather pay someone to take my turn for me. Yeah, that's precisely what's wrong in our society that it appears normal to pay for inconveniences to disappear. Except of course for most of us who don't have money so we get paid shitty wages for making other people's inconveniences disappear. If such jobs were the highest paid, that would be less of a problem of course. But the highest paid jobs under capitalis…

> that's precisely what's wrong in our society that it appears normal to pay for inconveniences to disappear. I disagree, it’s what is awesome about our society. It’s a feature, not a bug. I’ve gotten all the character I’ll get from cleaning toilets and I’m happy that someone else is willing to do it for me. There’s no way toilet cleaner will be a high paying job because the skill set is so low. As with most manual l…

> Low skill set means lots of people will do it means low wages.

High supply relative to demand or low demand relative to supply means low wages.

It is possible (and very real in many areas) that there are low numbers of people willing to clean toilets in a given area compared to the demand. It could be due to government assistance providing them enough such that they do not need to clean toilets to meet their needs.

It could be better job opportunities opening up nearby such as higher paying factory work. It could be that they move away from the area due to higher real estate prices. There are myriad causes for a low skill task to have few willing suppliers for the labor to perform that task.

Re: The NFT market bubble has popped?

#300

Post by SergeAx »

alexgmcm wrote: post #48
vesinisa wrote: post #5

I am hardly surprised. While Bitcoin maybe had theoretical uses as a currency a decade ago, the NFT hype never made any sense whatsoever to begin with.

Crypto (and NFTs in particular) remind me of the tale of The Emperor's New Clothes. I accept that maybe Ethereum could be valuable (I don't really understand smart contracts well enough to say..) and if they move to proof-of-stake that will make it more sustainable. Likewise, the sheer anonymity of something like Monero might be valuable for the black market. But everything else just seems like people seeking a "grea…

Smart contracts are really easy to understand: it is self-funding bug bounty program.
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