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What Oxford taught me about posh people

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Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#321

Post by geomark »

twobitshifter wrote: post #276
geomark wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You wouldn't start building a house when it's uncertain that you have enough money to be able to complete the project." Sorry for the completely OT reply, but this triggered me because it is exactly how banks in Thailand do lending to build a house. Once all the details and total cost are known, the bank lends about half of the needed amount and then checks on your progress. If you didn't get about half the house bu…

I think that’s common elsewhere as well. A construction loan in the US will work the same way and have a draw schedule that must be followed.

Interesting. I was unaware of that and thought it was a bizarre approach unique to banks in this so-called developing country.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#322

Post by pjc50 »

sokoloff wrote: post #293
pjc50 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(MA Cantab matriculated 1997) > kids more passionate about drinking and clubbing and gossiping than studying ... not like the world of Turing or Feynman at all. I think you may have underestimated how much Feynman was a prankster, womaniser and bongo-player who occasionally did some physics as well :) > you see them in the lectures, then you go back to your college There's kind of a hidden initiative test here; it do…

> The mental health and motivational/pedagogical thinking is also stuck in the 19th century. Some of this does need to adapt to today's students. If it adapts to pedagogic techniques now known to be more effective, that’s a good thing. If it instead adapts to changes in the students themselves, I think that’s more likely to be bad than good, or is at a minimum not obviously good .

Just because some round pegs have arrived, doesn't mean we should stop hammering them into these square holes!

Obviously there have been changes in the students over the years, not least the fact that the universities now admit women and Catholics. There have also been far broader changes in society; it wouldn't be illegal for Turing to be gay in the present Cambridge.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#323

Post by IgorPartola »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #307
WalterBright wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that you mention it, the USSR did make many things more fair. They did it by hammering everyone down to the bottom.

The USSR went from being a feudal society to an industrial society with a significant lead over the US in a number of areas, including rocketry and space, within a couple of generations. With a devastating world war in the middle. There's a lot to criticise about the Soviet system, just as there is any in totalitarian culture - but in science and engineering, "hammering everyone down to the bottom" is simply not what…

As someone born in the USSR, this is an oversimplified view instead. You can claim that the USSR had some good science and engineering, and it did, but it wasn’t always to benefit the people and was definitely done by oppressing the people. Remember that the USSR was the country that marched a platoon of soldiers under a mushroom cloud (without telling them of course) to see what would happen to them in the name of science. It’s also the country to displaced a village by rolling in tanks and telling people to move into houses of the people living in the next village over, immediately, and giving no reason. This was done to detonate an underground nuke to see if a natural gas fire could be put out. It’s the country that refused to evacuate Pripyat after the Chernobyl accident because it would have looked bad. The USSR wasn’t some benevolent scientific community bent on bettering lives. Its scientific interests were primarily military-related.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#324

Post by jseban »

ynfnehf wrote: post #280
jseban wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but norway do fund their welfare state with oil, which is why they didn't have to make as many budget cuts in the 90s as Sweden did. And Sweden financed its welfare state by being neutral in WWII which meant they had intact industry while all the competitors were wiped out, so they could just export for 4 decades. Much like the US also did after WWII for example with the car industry which were profitable until t…

What is your explanation for Denmark and Finland then?

Similar situation. And any time you use the nordic countries as an example, you have to realise that the middle class takes a huge hit for financing the equality.

Sweden has implemented a LOT of trickle down economy tax breaks for the wealthy people during the 2000s, such as completely getting rid of property tax, wealth tax, inheritance tax. Just to keep money in the country.

At the same time, the working people of the middle class are taxed really high, and that's used to show the world how equal Sweden is, while conveniently ignoring the tax breaks for the wealthy.

Redistribution always has a price, it's not like Sweden has invented a superior system that creates value out of thin air, Sweden has the poorest doctors and programmers of all the western nations, and people love to talk about equality but when they actually consider Sweden and find out that their salary will be 50% they go to another country.

Maybe not experiencing a terribly high brain drain, but the development is definitely stifled by the fact that it's so unattractive for middle class people to move to Sweden compared to other countries, even Germany is much better which is why so much of the IT companies are establishing in Berlin and not Stockholm.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#325

Post by sgt101 »

gyulai wrote: post #58
dogma1138 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cambridge And Oxford and a few other “elite” unis don’t allow students to work during the school year afaik, this alone filters many students but “ironically” not the poorest ones which may be eligible for a full tuition cover + stipend. Low income families above the low income limit set by the government who cannot afford tuition + covering living expenses tend to be those who can’t really afford to attend those sch…

That's not only a side effect, but a stated principle: After you gain admission, you have to prove that you have the money you need to sustain yourself either through a scholarship, or you have to literally show a bank statement that shows that you have a lump sum in your account that will sustain you for the normal amount of time it takes to finish the degree. Living expenses are factored into this at a set rate. Yo…

>After you gain admission, you have to prove that you have the money you need to sustain yourself either through a scholarship, or you have to literally show a bank statement that shows that you have a lump sum in your account that will sustain you for the normal amount of time it takes to finish the degree.

I think this is for graduate students - the undergraduate student system is different.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#326

Post by pw201 »

ad8e wrote: post #249
agent008t wrote: post #191

I expected Oxford undergraduates to be the best from all over the world, intensely passionate about their subjects. What I found were kids more passionate about drinking and clubbing and gossiping than studying. There seemed to be some weird hierarchy about who sits where in the dining hall that was completely bizarre. 'Default' social activities organized by the various committees all involved brain-dead clubbing an…

Seems like the school culture can shape behavior and varies a lot. At my undergraduate college, my fellow math undergraduates* conformed to the stereotype of focusing on academics. Other activities like sports, games, and anime were considered less-serious, and someone who spent too much time socializing was frivolous. A student won more respect from peers by being capable in class than by being good at Smash Bros in…

> Seems like the school culture can shape behavior and varies a lot.

Like other universities, things are also going to differ between subjects. But OxBridge has autonomous colleges which provide undergrad accommodation and arrange the individual tutorials/supervisions for undergrads. So there, college culture also matters. Some colleges certainly have a posher reputation than others, some have a reputation for being sportier, and so on. If you read a typical "OxBridge is really like this" articles without bearing that in mind you'll think the whole place is one thing.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#327

Post by adrianN »

WalterBright wrote: post #284
adrianN wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For suitable definitions of communism, a stock market is a good way to get the means of production into the hands of the workers: they can buy stocks and share ownership of the company they work for.

Sorry, a stock market is the antithesis of communism. You're not going to redefine your way out of that one :-)

I don't claim to be an expert in politology, but what I remember from school seems to indicate that the common ownership of the means of production is the core idea of communism. I don't understand how a stock market is antithetical to that. As I see it, common ownership of the means of production can be achieved both with and without a stock market. Could you maybe elaborate your standpoint?

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#328

Post by TrackerFF »

agent008t wrote: post #191

I expected Oxford undergraduates to be the best from all over the world, intensely passionate about their subjects. What I found were kids more passionate about drinking and clubbing and gossiping than studying. There seemed to be some weird hierarchy about who sits where in the dining hall that was completely bizarre. 'Default' social activities organized by the various committees all involved brain-dead clubbing an…

Elite schools are there for two types of students:

A) Incredibly smart and hard-working students that want to be around the leading experts in their fields. These kids end up as post docs / researchers, and get to work/stay close to those schools.

B) The ones that want to land elite jobs (gov / banking / finance / law / etc.) - for these, the social activities are quite more important.

Don't get me wrong, you need to be a top-tier student / pupil to get in, and the latter students are also such. But different priorities.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#329

Post by crispyambulance »

WalterBright wrote: post #238
crispyambulance wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China turning away from communism... If you were to ask the Chinese Communist Party, whether or not they "turned away" from Communism, I think the answer would be a hard "NO". China has a complicated economy. If anything, China demonstrates that Communism and Capitalism can be made to co-exist in a weird disconcerting way. I don't think it's a particularly good model for how to run things, especially when mixed-in…

China even has a stock market. Isn't that the opposite of communism?

No! Why would it be?

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#330

Post by rayiner »

agent008t wrote: post #270
thorin wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the stuff you mention, the drinking/clubbing is just true of teenagers / young people in the UK and you probably missed out the drugs and sex. When I went to a "top tier" uni in the 90s after watching the young ones and reading adrian mole I expected students to be going to rallies and being "intellectual". I spent more time reading about other subjects than my own and underperformed in my degree. Students w…

I can't help but think that for every student more into drugs/sex/drinking/clubbing, there is a kid out there who was genuinely interested in studying from the top academics that probably didn't even bother applying because they thought they wouldn't be able to get in (or won't be able to afford it). I am also surprised that the culture you describe seems to be tolerated at best and even encouraged at worst. Sure, it…

> I am also surprised that the culture you describe seems to be tolerated at best and even encouraged at worst. Sure, it would happen anywhere, but it is surprising to me that it is not strongly discouraged in society overall and at top academic institutions in particular.

You’d think so, but the whole culture has this problem. Western societies have replaced Christianity with the religion of hedonism and “self actualization.” It’s aspirational—most people don’t even live or want to live that way. But it would be taboo to condemn it or at least mark you as someone who wasn’t with the times.

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