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The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

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Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#321

Post by ballenf »

soperj wrote: post #303
jiggawatts wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another aspect to this people might be missing: If every phone that is shipped must come with a charger, but half the chargers are never used, then the marginal value gained by customers from the manufacturer improving that product is also halved. So why bother making the charger good? Half the people won't use it! They'd have to pay for something that's not a direct benefit to the product they do want to bu…

>This is the point of standards Except apple doesn't use standards. They use their own proprietary ports.

That's increasingly not true with the single exception of the iPhone (and even it now uses USB-C for the adapter and Qi for the wireless charge protocol). Every other new device (iPads, laptop and desktop) is 100% USB-C. And, again, you don't even strictly need a lightning cable for your iPhone for most scenarios (airport charging type scenarios used to be the big exception in olden times).

Some reviewers are guessing that iPhones will drop the wired charge port entirely at some point, so will become a moot point.

And as for squeezing customers, switching away from the Lightning port would "squeeze" quite a few iPhone customers with lightning cables and docks and such strewn around their house.

I just wish Apple had included a puck-type Qi charger and cable in the box. Could have kept the box pretty slim.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#322

Post by samatman »

saagarjha wrote: post #151
stetrain wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"decided to not pass that savings onto the customer" Do you have access to the BOM? Sure it was likely a cost-savings measure, but it may have been to combat rising prices elsewhere. It's a two-sided equation and we can't see the whole thing. If Apple did want to be environmentally friendly though I would think offering a reasonably priced multi-device (4-ports?) charger would be more effective than just selling a si…

They pulled it from all their other iPhones and kept the price the same. I think it's pretty clear it's profit for Apple.

It's not the same price because it's not the same device.

Did Apple increase or decrease their profit per iPhone on this round? Y'know, I have no idea. I do know that trying to come to a conclusion about it on the basis of not including a charger and headphones is impossible.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#323

Post by chipotle_coyote »

mmm_grayons wrote: post #307
soperj wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is the point of standards Except apple doesn't use standards. They use their own proprietary ports.

In fairness to Apple, they didn't just make other ports for the sake of it. When lightning mini was made, it was objectively better than mini-USB. When magsafe was made, it was objectively better than barrel plugs (and for charging, it's still better than USB-C.) Now that the standards are better, Apple is slowly transitioning to USB-C, which is a standard.

I remember making the observation a few years back that when the MacBooks went USB-C, they marked the first time that, as far as I know, Apple ever shipped a machine that had no proprietary ports on it... and it was so ironic that people (including, I'd note, on HN) were really angry about it. I still get into arguments with people insisting that it was all just a plot for Apple to force you to buy dongles.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#324

Post by unwabuisi »

jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

"We care so much about the environment, we'll use two packages instead of just one now."

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#325

Post by saagarjha »

samatman wrote: post #322
saagarjha wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They pulled it from all their other iPhones and kept the price the same. I think it's pretty clear it's profit for Apple.

It's not the same price because it's not the same device . Did Apple increase or decrease their profit per iPhone on this round? Y'know, I have no idea. I do know that trying to come to a conclusion about it on the basis of not including a charger and headphones is impossible.

> all their other iPhones

Take a look at iPhone SE's price before and after October 13th.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#326

Post by ballenf »

pwinnski wrote: post #293
alistairSH wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of thee existing Apple charging cubes are not USB-C. The cable included with the new phones is USB-C -> Lightning. So, the cable doesn't work with most existing chargers (unless you happen to also own an iPad Pro).

Right. I have a pile of existing charges and cables, no problem. The new free included cable will let me charge my new phone* from my MacBook, something I currently cannot do! * I don't actually plan to buy a new phone, but hypothetically.

Just based on MacBook vs. iPhone sales numbers, Apple sells 40 iPhones for every laptop. Most iPhone owners don't have an Apple laptop.

Numbers from 2018: 217M iPhones, 5M laptops:

https://www.statista.com/topics/847/apple/

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#327

Post by chipotle_coyote »

gnicholas wrote: post #174
saagarjha wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They pulled it from all their other iPhones and kept the price the same. I think it's pretty clear it's profit for Apple.

Fair point. They do have a significantly upgraded radio, however. I don't remember what happened to pricing when they went from 2G to 3G or 3G to 4G/LTE, but I would not have been surprised if pricing had gone up with the 5G upgrade (in a normal economy). That said, the AT&T/Verizon giveaway/deception is absolute garbage.

The iPhone 12 (and Mini) also both have OLED displays rather than the iPhone 11's LCD, so it's at least plausible that there's a bit of increased BOM there as well?

> That said, the AT&T/Verizon giveaway/deception is absolute garbage.

Absolutely. :)

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#328

Post by null0pointer »

jacurtis wrote: post #122

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30. I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for remov…

You already mentioned shipping cost, which is improved by better shipping density with the smaller boxes. Shipping is a huge carbon producer, so it makes sense to me that increasing density both makes it more cost effective for Apple and reduces the amount of impact on the environment. It's not only about e-waste.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#329

Post by robertoandred »

senkora wrote: post #251
mtm7 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be incredibly frustrating for the average person to buy an almost-$1000 device, use it until it runs out of battery, and realize that a charger is a completely separate purchase. Especially because the included cable is USB-C, so it won't work with most old power bricks. I feel like Steve wouldn't've let this happen... the UX is just so, so bad. It feels incredibly profit-motivated.

Phones do not ship charged, and I’m sure that the need for a charger will be prominently advertised both online and in store.

I’ve never had an iPhone shipped uncharged.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#330

Post by robertoandred »

theshrike79 wrote: post #263
ssully wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of their reasoning, I don't mind it because I have a box filled with unused phone charges and headphones from my families phone purchases. My only real concern is first time phone buyers. I think Apple stores (online or in person) should ask if you need headphones/wall charger when you purchase and just include a free set if you do.

Oh, they will upsell the SHIT out of accessories when you go grab the new phones. They won't mention you can get a 23W usb-c charger for $12 from Ikea, they'll sell you the $39 Apple one.

Apple’s is $19.
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