Earlier quoted context omitted.
> socialist view of an exploited proletariat is one of...a powerful force May be mistaken, but historically didn't socialist view proles as a 'lumpen mass', with no real power? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat
> May be mistaken, but historically didn't socialist view proles as a 'lumpen mass', No, the lumpenproletariat , in Marxist theory is an underclass beneath and contrasted with the proletariat consisting largely of the unemployable (not due to economic system or structure, or physical capacity, but personal character and inclination), career criminals (of more than mala in se than malum prohibiting sense), and the oth…
Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
321–330 of 450 posts
Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Just World Fallacy is an important cornerstone of a lot of people's beliefs about the world. It tends to come out most fervently in strained justifications about such massive and obvious inequalities in compensation, such as this case.
Whenever someone says "this state of the world is just, because ", it's easy to say "that's the just world fallacy talking". But it's basically contentless. Really you're just saying that you disagree with the "because", and not explaining why you disagree. I wish people did it less often.
The problem is with the fact "the world is just" is a position they reason from, and seek to defend, often in blatant contradiction to the facts of the situation.
Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
God what kind of knowledge / training do I need to get that level of bonus?
It's telling that the "he deserves it, it's all foresight and brilliance" is the leading reply and the "right skills, right time" reply is behind. I imagine just by sheer nature of the power law that some upvotes are people trying to justify their lot but that would be the minority of people. I guess just so many who haven't made it at all but hold this fiction dear for their own peace of mind?
> I imagine just by sheer nature of the power law that some upvotes are people trying to justify their lot but that would be the minority of people. I guess just so many who haven't made it at all but hold this fiction dear for their own peace of mind?
What you're doing here is speculating about the motives of an unknown number of people who upvoted a comment. Can you really not think of any other reason they might have done so?
Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
The flip-side of this truism is that this point of view is probably healthier for the individual than seeing themselves as helpless victims. Both views are flawed, of course.
> The flip-side of this truism is that this point of view is probably healthier for the individual than seeing themselves as helpless victims. That's not the flip side of that view, because the socialist view of an exploited proletariat in an advanced industrial democracy is not one of “helpless victims”, but of a powerful force that has the power to reverse the power structure once they realize it exists and act in…
A quick (and very) simplified summary of the traditional socialist perspective is that in capitalism, the vast majority of the population must work as wage-earners (proletariat) to provide the means to sustain their life.
A much smaller group of people (capitalists or bourgeoisie) own the means of production and do not need to work. The material interests of these two groups are in opposition (class struggle): value is created by work done (labour theory of value) and it is in the interest of capitalist owners to exploit workers as much as possible, i.e., maximise the amount of value they can extract as profit.
As economic value is created by the labour of workers, in an advanced industrial society, they are the class with the potential to consolidate this economic power: if they were to unite (in unions and socialist parties), they could use this economic power to take political power from the capital class. The goal of the socialist is to unite workers across boundaries so that they understand that their material interests coincide with other workers (class consciousness) – what they have in common is more important than what divides them. If workers don’t see that their material interests lie with the vast majority who have to work to live, the class will remain divided (as illustrated by the Ronald Wright quote).
As well as these two primary classes, there are other (smaller) classes in capitalist society, such as
- petit-bourgeoisie (small capitalists who own their means of production, e.g. shop-keeper) who can employ workers but don’t possess sufficient capital to not have to work themselves. Their class interests can lie with both capitalist and worker.
- lumpen proletariat – the underclass of the proletariat who don’t provide economic value, e.g., thieves, beggars, criminals; they lack class consciousness and act in their individual self-interest; they can be used by capitalists against the interests of the proletariat (e.g., strike-breaking, inciting racism to divide workers).
Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's telling that the "he deserves it, it's all foresight and brilliance" is the leading reply and the "right skills, right time" reply is behind. I imagine just by sheer nature of the power law that some upvotes are people trying to justify their lot but that would be the minority of people. I guess just so many who haven't made it at all but hold this fiction dear for their own peace of mind?
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." ― Ronald Wright, A Short History of Progress
The truth is that any system has winners calling the shots and losers at their mercy. What matters is figuring out which system (or blend of systems) produces the best outcomes for its worst off constituents.
Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whenever someone says "this state of the world is just, because ", it's easy to say "that's the just world fallacy talking". But it's basically contentless. Really you're just saying that you disagree with the "because", and not explaining why you disagree. I wish people did it less often.
The problem isn't with the explicit statement, which is rarely made. The problem is with the fact "the world is just" is a position they reason from, and seek to defend, often in blatant contradiction to the facts of the situation.
It seems to me that you're accusing people of a pattern of "mistakenly seeing the world as just". But your only evidence for this is one case of them mistakenly seeing the world as just; and in that case, you haven't even put in the work to show that they're actually mistaken.
(edit - for that matter, how many people even think this state of the world is just? From skimming, I can't see anyone explicitly saying it is. The author of the comment that triggered this subthread explicitly disclaims it.)
Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
When you say "literally" do you mean to imply he literally paid someone? That's quite implausible.
> When you say "literally" do you mean to imply he literally paid someone? Sadly, "literally" can mean "figuratively": From M-W:[1] "in effect : virtually —used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible" (Yes, I know they used the word "literally" in the definition). They also made a special page to explain this.[2] [1]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictio…
In the end though, if anything, it looks to me Levandowsky's prison postponement makes his sentence harsher, not more lenient. He will still have to serve his whole sentence in an actual prison, and until he starts the prison sentence his liberty will be curtailed (for example it's very likely he will not be allowed to leave the country). A good defense team would've gotten for him house arrest during the Covid19 crisis, and his defense team argued for this. They didn't get it.
So, literally or figuratively, how did money buy Levandowsky a get-out-of-jail-free card?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Haskell_Alsup#Deferred...
Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
God what kind of knowledge / training do I need to get that level of bonus?
It's telling that the "he deserves it, it's all foresight and brilliance" is the leading reply and the "right skills, right time" reply is behind. I imagine just by sheer nature of the power law that some upvotes are people trying to justify their lot but that would be the minority of people. I guess just so many who haven't made it at all but hold this fiction dear for their own peace of mind?
Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's telling that the "he deserves it, it's all foresight and brilliance" is the leading reply and the "right skills, right time" reply is behind. I imagine just by sheer nature of the power law that some upvotes are people trying to justify their lot but that would be the minority of people. I guess just so many who haven't made it at all but hold this fiction dear for their own peace of mind?
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." ― Ronald Wright, A Short History of Progress
Re: Levandowski sentenced to 18 months in prison as new lawsuit against Uber filed
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except that in his case the bonus was paid based on Project Chauffeur hitting certain milestones. They retained him until the project hit the milestones, and then he left. Which is fair and square. And by the way, Chris Urmson and Sebastian Thrun did the same. It's just that Google did not understand the Goodhart law of self driving, which states that you can hit arbitrarily hard milestones and yet get nowhere near r…
Has anyone seen any good hard milestones that would validate that self driving progress is being made? Even the framework?