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The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

currentaffairs.org

321–330 of 503 posts

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is a "fact" or what is "true" in dependent on your values (aka your ideology). This is one of Nietzsche's main contributions to philosophy. No, it's not. That's one of the Enlightenment’s many contributions to philosophy and the foundation on which the advances in knowledge of the universe enabling the explosion of post-Enlightenment technical progress is built. Obviously, one might have ideological, aesthetic…

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> The same metaphysical view you're describing also enabled utopian totalitarian visions like Nazism and Communism.

Leninism and it's descendants are totalitarian, Communism (even Marxism) more generally is not, but, sure, you can certainly make the case that scientific rationality has some connection to Marxism and thus an indirect effect on Leninism. OTOH, scientific rationality and the proven results are also the explicit basis for the widespread Western rejection of Leninism and it's descendants (and explictly cited as such by wide segments of the Right, including those who generalize that rejection to Communism generally, which the left might argue is an overgeneralization, but even in that argument there is a broad consensus that there are actual material facts that one can draw conclusions about from material evidence which transcends ideology when approached correctly.)

OTOH, Nazism was not based on scientific rationality, except as a reaction against it, and in fact both Italian Fascism and Naziism were explicitly based on the exact Nietzschean view that you advance (both the idea and explicitly crediting it to Nietzche).

> Postmodernism hinges on whether or not there is an objective set of values. Conservatives believe there is (the Bible, natural law, God, etc) whereas Postmodernists believe there isn't.

That may be a difference between your particular worldview and postmodernism, but large number of other conservatives criticize the “postmodern left” not merely for rejecting objective values which you claim is the difference between Conservatism and Postmodernism, but for rejecting objective facts and viewing facts as constructs which depend on ideology—the position you take on the nature of facts is one explicitly rejected and criticized (and attributed as a failing of the left) by most mainstream conservative thinkers, though I will agree that the factions of the Right who adhere to it are at what is, at least, a recent local maximum of prominence.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#322

This is specifically why I choose to support sources that don't have paywalls, but are still trustworthy news sources like Vox, The Guardian, etc. In these particular cases they do have an editorial stance that I happen to agree with but others may not, but the facts are still there and they're largely trustworthy. They're also open about their editorial stance and biases, so if you don't agree you can still get the…

I don’t read the Guardian, but Vox has a significant bias. I wouldn’t call them trustworthy.

Like I said, the facts are there. They're great journalists, and they're up front with their editorial stance. You don't have to agree with it, but you can still get the facts and good reporting.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been a lot of coverage around false-flag sorts of behavior in Portland, but the fact that this thing is being pumped through the lie pipelines that originate with places like RT (Russian state-controlled media) is kinda a dead giveaway. We can get into a nuanced discussion of "is it really lying" since there's a video, but I have not been a party to any conversations in my lifetime that start with a nuanced d…

> but the fact that this thing is being pumped through the lie pipelines that originate with places like RT They have originated with events on the ground widely reported by independent journalists, citizens and local news. https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo What people here are doing is dismissing the overall picture of what's happening on the ground in Portland based on a few misreported facts. No matter that that are h…

The old Snopes effect

Claim: Protestors burned then stomped on the US Flag

Snopes: Mostly False, Protestors actually stomped then burned the flag

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check-ratings/

I was thinking more along the lines of a true spectrum, like a percentage system. What you have here is a bunch of qualitative truthiness symbols decided arbitrarily, it's not much different from just saying true or false. For example, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/marijuana-electron-microsc... this article would lead a passerby to believe that there is equal parts truth and lie in this picture + caption. In real…

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Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#325

> it is not that the facts it reports tend to be inaccurate yes it is. I really lost faith in nyt when they ran article about running out of running out of charge in a Tesla. When they were caught red handed lying they still wouldn't admit to it. Their response was: "Problems With Precision and Judgment, but Not Integrity, in Tesla Test" They just don't get it. People are sick of their BS and they need to just comp t…

What does the author of this piece want? The "truth", or even a plausible interpretation of the facts, is expensive to produce. It is even more expensive when you do it every day covering a wide array of topics. If you value facts and good analysis, pay for them. It's that simple. Sure, the New York Times gets a lot of things wrong. So does everyone else, including many commenters on HN. * But a lot of what the New Y…

Truth is a public good and ought to be treated as such. If lies about the coronavirus are free, but the truth is costly, people will die, and indeed they are dying right now.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a mistake to judge an organization on one, or even a handful of incidents. There should be a pattern of inaccuracy and bias before you "cancel" a news source. This is one of the unsung problems of the modern world, the growing impossibility of keeping an accurate "reputation" in your brain. Virtually everyone and everything has been accused of being evil, in general, or specifically. It's no longer good enough t…

The more you know about a subject, the more false reporting you will find related to that subject. Remember that next time you read news about something you are not already well versed in.

>The more you know about a subject, the more false reporting you will find related to that subject.

This sounds like it should be a named law. Like Amdahl's Law or Moore's Law, or Sturgeon's Law!

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#327
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYT used to have industry-leading editorial standards. Just a week or two ago in their reporting on the UFO story, they initially reported it in a "ZOMG ALIENS ARE REAL!" way, which is the most clickbaity thing they could have done...and then silently published a correction after they got the bump in views. The NYT is practically indistinguishable from (modern) BuzzFeed.

Right; but it's one thing to say "they no longer have industry-leading editorial standards" and quite another to dismiss the entire publication for being less-than-perfect. I don't read the NYT front page – just articles linked here and elsewhere – so my view of it is far from complete and biased; I don't see "ZOMG ALIES!"-type articles for example, but there certainly still seems plenty of content of value on the NY…

There's actually a named psychological effect for when people read a news article that they know to be inaccurate and don't believe that lack of standards carry forward into the rest of the paper's articles...

Unfortunately both my memory and Google are failing me on this one. Maybe someone in the comments will contribute.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does OP's article say that the bible-burning incident was a 'lie'? New York Post says 'a bible', and your video a single book being burned, can't see whether that's a bible. The original video has been deleted (link is dead here: https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1289512762733785088 ) but quickly picked up by the usual far-right BS twitterati. >The fire was later put out by members of Moms United for Black L…

> so that article OP cites is outrage bait, it's not an informed source. How does this follow? One faction burns a bible and another faction puts it out. How do you choose which narrative to privilege?

> How do you choose which narrative to privilege?

Do you REALLY find it that hard to figure out? I can't tell if you're being sincere, or just being a troll who is trying to shrug and say nihilistic-sounding things to advance the alt-right agenda, which is to "flood the channels with shit" as Bannon said.

If some right-wing rando at a protest start burning a bible, and then two large established groups of protestors try to stop him because it is not what they are protesting and is sending a misleading optics, it really isn't that hard to see what is going on.

Like the white supremacist biker that was recently arrested for smashing windows during a BLM protest in an attempt to create deceptive optics for the right wing media machine.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't compare niche edutainment channels to the major news outlets. NYT is in the business of credible news, these small content makers aren't credible sources of news.

I categorically disagree. Most journalists just quote someone they deem to be an expert on a topic. On topics that interest you, you're better served to do some research and find the experts for yourself.

Journalists tend to quote people institutions deem to be an expert on a topic. "Do some research and find the experts for yourself" is also how people get sucked into a lot of charlatanism re: health, fringe economic ideas, climate change denialism, etc. etc. etc.

Re: The Truth Is Paywalled but the Lies Are Free

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at least on the topic of tesla, nyt has been wrong and unfair against tesla for about 10 years. i really don't know about other topics... but... pg repeatedly questions the integrity of nyt and has personally been the victim of their bias. https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1236975851255857152?lang=en https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1236979160100343812

It doesn’t absolve the times if they did indeed make an error, but I’d like to point out that pg isn’t exactly a bastion of accuracy and rational argument himself: see https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/07/how-to-pretend-that-y... from the same publication as the OP. The criticisms leveled against pg in this article apply to pretty much all of his social commentary and writings, and its really a shame so many people…

lol... a shame? wealth and status? you do know he created this site... right?
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