Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

jatan.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 645 posts

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#321

Post by abeyer »

bgorman wrote: post #315

Ubuntu is doing more harm than good to desktop linux at this point in time. Continuing to push Xorg over Wayland. Removing support for flatpak (cross-distro way of using sandboxed apps) Horrible PPA system that works much worse in practice than the AUR or other ports systems. No daemonless docker (podman) Lots of people try Ubuntu since it is the "most popular" version of Linux, realize it isn't great and think deskt…

Ubuntu tried shipping wayland on by default already and it was a clusterf* and made that release all but unusable. Wayland isn't ready for an LTS release yet.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#322

Post by stevepike »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #249
stevepike wrote: post #229

So I run Kubuntu on my work laptop (X1 Carbon) and just upgraded to 20.04 last weekend. I had a vague idea there were different competing standards for "linux apps that work across distribution" but didn't know people had such a problem with snap. It just seemed like a useful tool for installing proprietary stuff that wouldn't normally be packaged by the distribution. I just checked and the snaps I have that aren't f…

There are some downsides (footprint, forced updates, speed, etc.), though depending on what you're installing those may not be deal-breakers. I'm using plain Ubuntu 20.04 and I tend to install stuff via apt and not snap in general (but I am fine with installing non-essential things via snap). The software store has a subtle toggle in the upper right for choosing to install a package as a snap or via apt when both are…

Yeah, is there a plan for it to long-term replace apt? I've just always used apt as my first choice and then snap for random things like spotify.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#323

Post by ComputerGuru »

ohazi wrote: post #115

If you're looking for an alternative to Ubuntu but want to stick with a Debian-based distribution, I'll continue to recommend Debian testing. It's a rolling release, so you don't have to stop what you're doing every 6 months - 3 years to install a huge update that changes the way everything works. It's more stable than the name would suggest, as long as you follow a few reasonable best-practices [1]. Software availab…

Is there a way to get ZFS on Debian the same way as with Ubuntu (for someone that prefers text-based installers and is fine with an unsupported solution)? Debian has always had more ideological purity that got in the way of users being able to actually use their machine efficaciously.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#324

Post by [deleted] »

koheripbal wrote: post #287
nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

...dumb question: Does this apply to Ubuntu Server as well??? Because if so, I'm sticking with 18.04.

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#325

Post by [deleted] »

lonelappde wrote: post #154
chrisseaton wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the point of compression to save transfer time from the disk to memory, not space on the disk? That's why the kernel is compressed.

Yes. It's a great idea for spinning rust, meh for SATA SSD, and bad for NVMe SSD.

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#326

Post by close04 »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #212
zerkten wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly I don't have a problem with that. But if they don't give power user the option to opt out, this is just disrespectful The problem is that "power users" can't be trusted to use this power responsibly, or they operate based on assumptions that won't always be true. Either way they end up hurting other people in enough situations that this becomes an ecosystem issue. Power users often help others set up their…

The arrogance in this comment astounds me. It's almost never appropriate to assume that people don't have the right to make decisions for themselves, even if you think those decisions harm them. People have different values and weigh their own decisions against their own values, not yours.

> It's almost never appropriate to assume that people don't have the right to make decisions for themselves, even if you think those decisions harm them

But when those decisions affect others? When your computer becomes part of a botnet and is used to attack a target then it's no longer just your problem anymore. The responsibility to prevent this must lie somewhere, either with the user or with the manufacturer. And Microsoft would rather force the updates on users and occasionally be in the news for a botched one than to constantly be in the news for botnets of hundreds of thousands of "abandoned" Windows PCs, or the constant complaint that Windows is insecure because people keep their PCs stuck on the same version they came with.

To use some very current imagery, imagine if someone walked around coughing in your face saying the decision whether to wear a mask or not is theirs.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#327

Post by limeblack »

nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

> But it can’t even be turned off manually.

Backwards compatibility is a positive as long as it's secure. This makes me hesitatant to what is going on. Auto updates good, no blocking not sure.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#328

Post by neetfreek »

nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

Point taken on the shoddy behaviour, but if you'd like to try it out there's this helpful post on disabling snap[1] shared here[2] when I installed 20.04. Quick and painless!

1. https://www.kevin-custer.com/blog/disabling-snaps-in-ubuntu-...

2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22972661

*Edited

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#329

Post by hocuspocus »

bgorman wrote: post #315

Ubuntu is doing more harm than good to desktop linux at this point in time. Continuing to push Xorg over Wayland. Removing support for flatpak (cross-distro way of using sandboxed apps) Horrible PPA system that works much worse in practice than the AUR or other ports systems. No daemonless docker (podman) Lots of people try Ubuntu since it is the "most popular" version of Linux, realize it isn't great and think deskt…

If it's so bad, then why is it the most popular?

Arch is a no-go for most people and any sane IT department. Fedora doesn't offer LTS and RH/CentOS feel quickly outdated on desktops, let alone laptops.

Ubuntu ships a distribution that works on most hardware and provides a reasonable desktop environment. While snaps aren't the most elegant solution, they do the job when your users need to install stuff like Jetbrains IDEs for instance.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#330

Post by michaelmrose »

harrygeez wrote: post #103
greendave wrote: post #18

> Auto-updating of snaps can only be deferred at best, until at some point, like Windows, it auto-updates anyway. Even on metered connections, snaps auto-update anyway after some time. This attitude is obnoxious. Yes, not everybody is on a metered connection or running a mission-critical system, but some are, and it is hardly unreasonable to accommodate them.

This is a hard problem. And Microsoft didn't have a choice. Given an option regular users will never update their computers, perhaps partly due to fear of what they don't understand, fear of change, or maybe due to past bad update experiences. I witness this in my mom with technology all the time. Every time there's a popup she mini-panics, and she has trained herself to click close every time she sees something she…

Options are for everyone not power users. Options are a necessary escape hatch for users when you fail to take into account their needs.

Inevitably you will miss some use cases. Given sufficient configurability users faced with substantial challenges will be able to find a way to use your software.

If you can easily search options including a description of the option this can still be usable for all.

Post reply on HN