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Things you can do with a browser in 2020

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Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#321

Post by Spivak »

equalsione wrote: post #314
shp0ngle wrote: post #282

> Browsers can register push notifications Oh yes I didn't notice EVERY PAGE on the planet asking me for that. (After asking me for e-mail newsletter signup and cookie consent.)

Firfox recently changed this so that you have it can only be invoked from within a button click or equivalent event[0] - I _think_ Chrome is following suit. 0 - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Push_API

Yeah, and this works somewhat but sites just listen for the events on every element and trigger the popup then.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#322

Post by taeric »

girvo wrote: post #247
taeric wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still get more robo calls on landlines than on my cell. Conveniently, my cell is in a different area code from where I live, so even easy to spot the bad ones. And I have never gotten an unsolicited text. That wasn't a wrong number.

I’ve gotten plenty, just for a counter-anecdote. In fact I received one today!

From who? This is literally against the law in the states. You reply stop, and if they don't, you can report them.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#323

Post by taeric »

Stratoscope wrote: post #249
taeric wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer copying the link to the page I'm on to share. No popups, native or otherwise. Similarly, I like not having an app running so that you could just send me a text. Sms is bad for security, but great see sending short notifications. Almost better, as it is so limited.

> I prefer copying the link to the page I'm on to share. No popups, native or otherwise. I tend to agree, but this puts us both in the 5% of internet users who know how to do that. (And no, I'm not celebrating that low number.)

Sadly, agreed. Shame that it is moving this way.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#324

Post by taeric »

oblio wrote: post #275
taeric wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer copying the link to the page I'm on to share. No popups, native or otherwise. Similarly, I like not having an app running so that you could just send me a text. Sms is bad for security, but great see sending short notifications. Almost better, as it is so limited.

The most used feature in Microsoft Office is the Paste button in the toolbar: > What we didn't know until we analyzed the data was that even though so many people do use CTRL+V and do use "Paste" on the context menu, the toolbar button for Paste still gets clicked more than any other button. The command is so incredibly popular that even though there are more efficient ways of using it, many people do prefer to click…

As soon as you put so much in the toolbar, people have to use a mouse. That they are still taking the most naturally used action shouldn't be surprising.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#325

Post by taeric »

innocenat wrote: post #299
hoseja wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could just trim the URL yourself.

Which is a behaviour I observed in most power users, but none in the non-power user group. I don't think most non-power user even want to try to trim that stuff, because they don't know what can be trimmed and what can't.

This is also why most non power users will have chrome browsers loaded with tons of add-ons and basically let every site start sending notifications...

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#326

Post by Spivak »

beagle3 wrote: post #87
dijit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why I read this in a negative tone, this is fantastic.

I'm not sure about other browsers, but Firefox asks once per website that wants a push, and even that can be turned off. What's fantastic about not even having the option? What's fantastic about having to pay $100/year or reinstall your apps once a week, in addition to having Apple MITM any notifications?

Battery life is the main reason for this it seems. It's not about "having the option" it's "if you give devs the option they will use it leading to an overall worse experience." Web push notifications can't possibly leverage the single low-power TCP connection that iOS (and Android with gplay) devices keep open.

Push notifications in the way that phones do it are necessarily platform and service specific.

You don't have to allow Apple to MITM your push notifications BTW. Just send a generic ping to your app, and when it wakes up pull the actual content from your server and display the notification.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#327

Post by endemic »

onion2k wrote: post #258
dgellow wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Two things: 1. The person you respond to is also a user, no reason to dismiss their point of view 2. I don’t think browsers asked users for what they want! It’s a bit disingenuous to say “that’s what users want” when the communication is one way only.

Try talking to some developer relations people from the Google Web team, Mozzila, Microsoft etc. They're all very receptive to feature requests. It absolutely isn't a one way street.

> They're all very receptive to feature requests.

I think that's part of the problem.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#329

Post by austurist »

badsectoracula wrote: post #212
modeless wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If operating systems had ever provided security strong enough to run untrusted code, we wouldn't have needed to. It's really a failing of operating system security. Even today no operating system provides an application sandbox as strong and versatile as the browser. Platforms have fallen back on walled gardens (app stores) with centralized control of all code execution to compensate for the deficiencies of their sec…

The whole security angle is an after-the-fact rationalization and the vast majority of users (not developers, users ) never cared much about it - as anyone in the IT department of pretty much every company can tell you (again, users, not developers, not sysops, not admins, but regular end users). The real reason we see so many web apps is that the decision on what technology to use for an application is largely somet…

There is an another interesting property of web applications: the can't be stolen. I guess, this could also be a reason of their ubiquity.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#330

Post by StefanKarpinski »

stickfigure wrote: post #317
raxxorrax wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then you're out of step with what users want these days. We hear this pretty often without any evidence. He is a user, you are a user, that makes two opinions. I think the reality that companies set the rules and people just swallow what they get because alternatives require huge efforts. We also heard that users want large tiles that are all over their desktop with zero functionality.

In terms of development effort, maintaining a browser fork that merely disables these features seems pretty easy. If you think users would prefer that, why not make one? I personally don't think it would take off, because I think most user attitudes range from "want these features" to "ambivalence". But if you're so certain, why not try?

Why does it require a fork? Having an advanced settings page with checkboxes for each of these web features seems straightforward and not overly confusing to normal users.
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