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Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

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Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#321

Post by systemtest »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #238
ryanSrich wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different strokes I guess. For me it’s the utility factor. I can get a well equipped, 4 door Tacoma for $32k. That’s a hell of a lot more useful to me than a $40k Tesla. Perhaps if Tesla had a small sized pickup for less than $45k I’d give it a look, but their lower-end options just aren’t that attractive. When you’re looking at a vehicle that’s the size of a civic, that isn’t a fun sports car, I just don’t see how t…

Most Americans don't need a pickup truck (I know, the horror of such a statement). If you value the added utility, different strokes. Tesla is pulling sales from entry level models produced by luxury manufacturers, but also pulling sales from people who would've traditionally paid less for a non luxury vehicle. My brother badly wanted a 4Runner until I let him borrow my Model S for a week. He then decided he couldn't…

If you don't have an SUV or pickup truck, how would people know that you have an active lifestyle?

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#322

Post by systemtest »

Yuval_Halevi wrote: post #10

As someone who lived in Amsterdam for one year (I'm originally from Israel) I was extremely impressed by how the government create a solid infrastructure for electric car owners to charge their car batteries.

I'm skeptical. There is a charging spot in front of my door. I can't use it because I don't have a parking permit. I don't have a parking permit because I have a parking spot of my own. The parking spot is 50 meters from my home and installing a charging spot would be close to €10.000 because they would have to repave the asphalt road that it crosses. I gave up.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#323

Post by tyfon »

martinald wrote: post #270
tyfon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are basically no subsidies for EVs in Norway, only tax relief. The government is not paying anyone to use EVs. Some municipals have free public charging stations but that's up to the locals to decide.

Tax relief is pretty much exactly the same as subsidies though. If the Norwegian govt didn't bother doing EV tax relief, they would get another x billion NOK in taxes sitting in the treasury. It's no different to giving the billions of NOK as a discount on the purchase price like other countries.

There is a huge difference. In one instance they government pays direct money to make something cheaper.

In the other they do not collect tax on something. The argument that the "could have had" the money is moot because they never had it in the first place like with subsidies.

It's like saying the US government is subsidising iphones since they could have had 100% sales tax on them but do not.

And lastly, the tax they collect on the ICE cars is a pollution and/or CO2 tax so it is not applicable to EVs anyway as they do not have an indirect cost to society in form of pollution. I think they should tax ICE cars even more and same with petrol and CO2 release in general.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#324

Post by ptaipale »

close04 wrote: post #96
ptaipale wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany - as well as in some other countries - the problem is not only generation of electricity, but the capacity to transfer it. There may be lots of renewables, but not way to transfer it to consumers because of not enough capacity in the grid. There is lots of public resistance to expanding the grid (mostly along the lines of "not in my backyard").

Also bringing the necessary capacity for proper charging to the average underground parking of a building costs tens of thousands of Euros per parking spot (numbers I got from the electricity distribution company). That's an investment most people are simply not willing to make especially when renting. What would be the reason for people to oppose developing the grid, especially as NIMBY? Other than the obvious cost…

People oppose power lines because they just don't want to have them near their house, or run through a forest where they walk.

Some people are afraid of adverse health effects of power lines (claiming cancer issues etc, which are fake news), but often it may also be just that powerlines are considered ugly, and seeing them from your window brings down your property value.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#325

Post by ptaipale »

atq2119 wrote: post #216
close04 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also bringing the necessary capacity for proper charging to the average underground parking of a building costs tens of thousands of Euros per parking spot (numbers I got from the electricity distribution company). That's an investment most people are simply not willing to make especially when renting. What would be the reason for people to oppose developing the grid, especially as NIMBY? Other than the obvious cost…

If they quoted you that much money, it sounds like there's a market there ready for disruption. 10k Euros is far too much, especially when you can do the job for many parking spots at once.

There may be substantial digging works to be done if you need to install new power lines to housing, which is not cheap, and various installation works are costly when done afterwards.

I live in Finland, where it is typical that blocks of flats as well as terraced and single-family houses have parking lots where there already is an electric supply to each car (for the purpose of heating the enging before winter morning starts). Even here it's not directly suitable for charging, because the feeding capacity is OK for warming cars, but not for quick charging. Fuse boxes and feeding cables have to be replaced, at a substantial cost.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#326

Post by close04 »

ptaipale wrote: post #324
close04 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also bringing the necessary capacity for proper charging to the average underground parking of a building costs tens of thousands of Euros per parking spot (numbers I got from the electricity distribution company). That's an investment most people are simply not willing to make especially when renting. What would be the reason for people to oppose developing the grid, especially as NIMBY? Other than the obvious cost…

People oppose power lines because they just don't want to have them near their house, or run through a forest where they walk. Some people are afraid of adverse health effects of power lines (claiming cancer issues etc, which are fake news), but often it may also be just that powerlines are considered ugly, and seeing them from your window brings down your property value.

I thought we're talking about the underground power lines that go from a transformer to the house.

Later edit. Ok, that makes sense. For some reason I read it as "upgrading the residential grid to support the extra load of EV charging". There are already HV power distribution lines spanning the country. I understand building new transmission towers would be a NIMBY topic but is it a given that they can't be upgraded to expand the capacity over the same towers?

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#327

Post by ptaipale »

close04 wrote: post #326
ptaipale wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People oppose power lines because they just don't want to have them near their house, or run through a forest where they walk. Some people are afraid of adverse health effects of power lines (claiming cancer issues etc, which are fake news), but often it may also be just that powerlines are considered ugly, and seeing them from your window brings down your property value.

I thought we're talking about the underground power lines that go from a transformer to the house. Later edit. Ok, that makes sense. For some reason I read it as "upgrading the residential grid to support the extra load of EV charging". There are already HV power distribution lines spanning the country. I understand building new transmission towers would be a NIMBY topic but is it a given that they can't be upgraded…

I was writing about the national power grid in Germany and other countries; basically, the lines at 220 kV or higher, or HVDC, that transfers power from e.g. the wind power stations at North Sea to the consumers and industry that needs electricity in Bavaria.

Likewise for Sweden: there is hydro and other capacity in north, but power grid cannot transfer enough power to users in Skåne (Malmö) so that industrial projects are cancelled.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#328

Post by Robotbeat »

vkou wrote: post #319
jdsully wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have an SUV. Its called the Model X.

1. Model X sales aren't great, compared to SUV vs sedan sales for other manufactuers. 2. Other manufacturers have multiple mid-range sedan models. Honda has the Civic, the Insight, the Accord, the Clarity, and the Fit hatchback. Their sales are being split across five different low-mid-range models. Tesla has one . Toyota has the Yaris, the Corolla, the Prius, the Camry, the Avalon, and if you're some kind of lunatic…

Model X sales are good compared to other luxury SUVs.

The idea that Tesla would be better off introducing ICEs is just insane. A quick way to bankruptcy (like all those other new domestic car makers who tried to start up the last ~100 years). People want the long-range, properly engineered EVs that Tesla makes. But I do realize you’re trolling.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#329

Post by imtringued »

marvin wrote: post #229
aerodude wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're in the USA and fill your tank once a week, you probably spend ~$2000/yr in gas. And that's how much you'd save in gas if you went electric. The electric bill makes a big difference, because you're really looking at the relative cost of two different forms of energy -- electrical and chemical (fuel). The last time I calculated it, the cost of running an ICE was around 20% more expensive (in my area) than a…

Anecdotally, thousands of Norwegians have a Tesla as their only car. The Supercharger network makes long trips completely painless, practically equivalent with an ICE vehicle.

I've never understood the range complaints beyond 400km. As long as your car can drive 130km/h or faster it is suitable for a road trip.

It is almost impossible to repair the damage that CO2 emissions cause. You need an even bigger clean energy source to reverse the damage so it is always more efficient to use that energy to never cause emissions in the first place. EVs are a way to reduce emissions at the cost of waiting for them to charge during road trips. But for some stupid inexplicable reason no one actually wants that trade off.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#330

Post by mcv »

Faark wrote: post #108
ralusek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't running an internal combustion engine in a car still substantially less efficient than the power plant necessary to charge it, regardless of the fuel?

Not just that, ICE cars emit their shitty exhaust right where lots of people live. Things are generally more complex than breaking it down to a single CO2 number make it appear, and I'm a bit uneasy that recent trend.

CO2 emissions are of particular concern right now (and honestly should have been for the past 40 years), so it makes sense that they get a lot of attention. But you're absolutely right that it's not the only kind of pollution, and the others shouldn't be ignored either.

Despite there being 7 billion of us, we seem to struggle with paying attention to more than one problem at a time.

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