Terminating Service for 8Chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#321

Post by jquery » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:25 AM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #171

jquery wrote: post #156

I'm pretty sure more Twitter and Facebook users have become mass killers than 8ch users. The first comment to the guy on 8ch who posted the manifesto was "hello FBI". Not a 8ch user but they don't appear to support shootings. I'm more familiar with 4chan shenanigans and they definitely don't support it, with any threat of real-life violence being met with something along the lines of "[alphabet agency] fuck off". Not…

>I'm more familiar with 4chan shenanigans and they definitely don't support it The origin story of 8chan from what I understand is that it is all of the people who had too extreme of views for 4chan... which created an echo chamber to further radicalize and ferment.

Sort of, not exactly how I remember it. 8ch appeared because 4chan’s boards are dedicated to certain topics and some subjects fell through the gaps between boards. I remember 8ch getting popular when incessant gamergate spam was banned from /v/. 8ch also has a “popular” leftypol board which is the left wing counterpart to 4chan’s pol (there’s no good place on 4chan to discuss Bernie Sanders, for example, without getting mobbed). Raids were also banned from 4chan and some other things which brought unwanted attention to the site, I think those people also went to 8ch. A final group of people left to 8ch when Moot (the person who used to run 4chan) scrambled /pol/ for a week (?), making the topic board unusable for regulars. Any other growth of 8ch is beyond my knowledge of the site.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#322

Post by javagram » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:25 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #286

yongjik wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every other, let's say, G20 country, someone shooting up a shopping mall and killing 20 will absolutely make national news - they will talk about it for months and it will be ranked "top ten worst news for $country in 2019", if not the absolute worst. In some countries (let's say, Korea) reporters will probably dig into the shooter's elementary school transcripts and interview second cousins. In other words, if an…

>In other words, if anyone is aiming for notoriety, shooting up people in Seoul or Tokyo will give you an eternal place in national zeitgeist, while in America you will be famous until the next shooting: A few months? Weeks? Good luck buying guns in Korea/Japan (or any country[1] for that matter) as a tourist, or smuggling them in. It's significantly easier to get guns where you normally reside. [1] Except maybe the…

There’s no gun show exemption. There’s a private sale exemption, because the law doesn’t allow private sellers to access the background check system.

Registered FFL holders selling guns at a show have to do the same background checks they’d do anywhere else.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#323

Post by lostlogin » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:26 AM UTC

tenpies wrote: post #251

fortran77 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A man, spreading a false rumor about a restaurant called "Meat", told people on Twitter to burn down that restaurant. He thought his restaurant was responsible for removing a graffiti mural on a building across the street. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/02/nyregion/crown-heights-ri... > “If that mural goes down, the restaurant gonna go down next,” read one comment on Ms. Price’s post [ on twitter ] , accompanied by…

> I reported the tweet that called for burning the restaurant across the street down to Twitter, and Twitter did remove that tweet You already got 99% more than the average Twitter report. Twitter really needs a better "this tweet is verifiably fake, here is the proof" option that is acted upon with relative speed.

Some of their highest profile accounts accounts would get hit, and they wouldn’t be wanting that. It would also make them some powerful enemies.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#324

Post by basementcat » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:26 AM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #208

basementcat wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All speech is good in my opinion. Some actions are bad. 8chan is supporting these actions, they've crossed the line. It looks like you've just made a determination of what you consider is bad speech.

Hah. I had to re-read your post + delete my original reply rejecting that. You got me. ;) I guess I am not as absolutionist as I thought.

I was also more of a free speech absolutist when I was younger. Now I’m more on the fence and I struggle to objectively define what is "good" and "bad" speech.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#325

Post by ufmace » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:26 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #286

yongjik wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every other, let's say, G20 country, someone shooting up a shopping mall and killing 20 will absolutely make national news - they will talk about it for months and it will be ranked "top ten worst news for $country in 2019", if not the absolute worst. In some countries (let's say, Korea) reporters will probably dig into the shooter's elementary school transcripts and interview second cousins. In other words, if an…

>In other words, if anyone is aiming for notoriety, shooting up people in Seoul or Tokyo will give you an eternal place in national zeitgeist, while in America you will be famous until the next shooting: A few months? Weeks? Good luck buying guns in Korea/Japan (or any country[1] for that matter) as a tourist, or smuggling them in. It's significantly easier to get guns where you normally reside. [1] Except maybe the…

There never was a gunshow exemption. Federally licensed dealers must follow the same process to sell a gun no matter where they do it - at their brick-and-mortar store, at a gunshow, or in a parking lot. Individuals can sell a personally owned firearm to anyone in the same state with no check, and where the sale is made has no relevance.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#326

Post by cyberferret » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:26 AM UTC

tomlockwood wrote: post #175

cyberferret wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you are getting downvoted. It is the same here. Every time I see a US city name in my Twitter sidebar here in Australia, I just know that it is another mass shooting without having to click. I hate that it has become so common now that I have just stopped clicking to find out more about them. This sort of thing used to horrify me, but nowadays I just feel so numb about it, and that scares me because…

I also wonder if Americans who think this is a problem with the media inspiring more shootings would take the same tack on reporting terrorist incidents. Wouldn't it make sense to say we shouldn't report on them, given that attitude? I'm a US/AU dual citizen and I've visited America quite often over the last few years, and it feels like we hear about the shootings only very slightly less in Australia than in the US.…

The biggest puzzle to me is how a lot of Americans I talk to that equate 2A with 'freedom'. I have seriously had conversations with some people who believe that we are _less_ free here in Australia that them in the US because we do not have the right to bear arms.

I think that definition of 'freedom' has just become so conflated or twisted of late that it really needs to be decoupled from the overall culture and re-examined.

Today I read tweets from pundits and politicians advocating for armed guards to be at every 'peaceful gathering' in order to ensure safety in the US. I grew up in an authoritarian S/E Asian country where there were policemen or soldiers on literally every street corner with an automatic weapon slung around their front and with one hand close to the trigger. This is the very antithesis of 'freedom' to me.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#327

Post by buzzerbetrayed » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:27 AM UTC

yongjik wrote: post #240

umvi wrote: post #34

It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…

In every other, let's say, G20 country, someone shooting up a shopping mall and killing 20 will absolutely make national news - they will talk about it for months and it will be ranked "top ten worst news for $country in 2019", if not the absolute worst. In some countries (let's say, Korea) reporters will probably dig into the shooter's elementary school transcripts and interview second cousins. In other words, if an…

> It’s not the media. It’s not attention-seeking.

It may not be these things alone. But they do contribute. The number of copy-cat crimes is a pretty clear indication of that.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#328

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:27 AM UTC

word-reader wrote: post #199

This post repeatedly refers to 8chan as "lawless" and "unmoderated" but it is neither. As a whole, it is a public website subject to US law, complete with DMCA and search warrant contact forms. The sitewide rule is that all content must comply with US law. The media also keeps saying 8chan, 8chan, 8chan over and over, when it is really just the one most popular board ("pol") that is being discussed. But there are hun…

Zzz, how many mass murders do you need before you decide there's a structural problem? That's 70 people dead so far this year from people using 8ch as a launching pad for terrorism, and just including the very obvious ones (Christchurch and El Paso). It's rational for Cloudflare to pull the plug and limit their owners' liability.

And no, /pol/ is not the only hive of extremism on 8ch, although it's the best known and although there are many other boards.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#329

Post by judge2020 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:27 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #308

word-reader wrote: post #199

This post repeatedly refers to 8chan as "lawless" and "unmoderated" but it is neither. As a whole, it is a public website subject to US law, complete with DMCA and search warrant contact forms. The sitewide rule is that all content must comply with US law. The media also keeps saying 8chan, 8chan, 8chan over and over, when it is really just the one most popular board ("pol") that is being discussed. But there are hun…

> It seems like most of the outrageous incitement to violence people have posted on 8chan would be illegal under Brandenburg v. Ohio And yet, no one wants to police that. So... Cloudflare did it themselves. I mean, look, I get the principled point you're making, but it's on really shaky ground. Either the conduct on that site was garbage that should be removed or it wasn't. And if it was... well, good riddance. After…

People use twitter all the time to announce crimes, but everyone knows Twitter is a limited medium and tries to police that content.

But I agree with you. After enough incidents of users announcing mass shootings via the website, they should have set up rules and opened moderator/"janitor" applications to police the content. This is exactly what 4chan did when they grew media attention about bad things happening on their site. 8chan didn't do this because it goes against why the site was created in the first place.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#330

Post by wvenable » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:27 AM UTC

busymom0 wrote: post #207

Spivak wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be legally required to do business with any customer? At some level does a person not have the right to say, "I don't like you and won't take your money?" Sure, the US and others have protected classes that limit the reasons you can refuse to do business with someone but those are more to do with people in those classes being unfairly burdened and facing difficulty living tier day-to-day lives.

> You should be legally required to do business with any customer? No you shouldn't be. But this should also be treated fairly. Communications Decency Act of 1996, Section 230 allowed platforms to not be held liable for user generated content. But it did not allow publishers to have the same freedom. Notice the very important distinction between "platforms" vs "publishers". A publisher like a newspaper can be sued fo…

> When companies like CloudFlare start banning people for political reasons, they are stepping into the "publishers" market and should be stripped off of the protections from the CDA Section 230.

That's ridiculous. Every single platform, perhaps excluding 8chan, moderates their content. Whatever reasons for that moderation are really dependent on the platform.

What separates a publisher from a platform is authorship; Cloudflare, Facebook, etc claim no authorship over their content. But a newspaper is exactly the opposite, they proudly proclaim their authorship since that's the point.

With cloudflare, it's even less relevant because they aren't moderating content at all -- they're simply choosing their customers -- and that is different again.