Terminating Service for 8Chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#251

Post by tenpies » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:04 AM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #235

word-reader wrote: post #199

This post repeatedly refers to 8chan as "lawless" and "unmoderated" but it is neither. As a whole, it is a public website subject to US law, complete with DMCA and search warrant contact forms. The sitewide rule is that all content must comply with US law. The media also keeps saying 8chan, 8chan, 8chan over and over, when it is really just the one most popular board ("pol") that is being discussed. But there are hun…

A man, spreading a false rumor about a restaurant called "Meat", told people on Twitter to burn down that restaurant. He thought his restaurant was responsible for removing a graffiti mural on a building across the street. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/02/nyregion/crown-heights-ri... > “If that mural goes down, the restaurant gonna go down next,” read one comment on Ms. Price’s post [ on twitter ] , accompanied by…

> I reported the tweet that called for burning the restaurant across the street down to Twitter, and Twitter did remove that tweet

You already got 99% more than the average Twitter report. Twitter really needs a better "this tweet is verifiably fake, here is the proof" option that is acted upon with relative speed.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#252

Post by King-Aaron » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:04 AM UTC

sytelus wrote: post #241

mikeash wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A utility is typically a natural monopoly providing some sort of essential service. Cloudflare is neither.

What happens if all other providers refuse you as well on same basis? What if Comcast refuse you to provide any internet service because they don't like your views on net neutrality?

I guess then you'd have to reflect on the kind of content you're promoting if the entire internet hates you for it.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#253

Post by chillacy » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:04 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #173

untog wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically) Logic like that is usually applied to forces of nature. Or at least things that provide utility in return for this risk (e.g. cars). Mass shootings don't really fit that mould. "stop telling people things" strikes me as a strange response. We could have a nationwide epidemic of mass shootings flying unde…

> We could have a nationwide epidemic of mass shootings flying under the radar entirely. There are published statistics. They suggest that the focus should be on car safety, driving and worrying about bad habits that have health impacts. We'd know if there was a problem and the evidence is that your greatest enemy is you. It'd be interesting to get statistics on how many of these shootings are linked to drug abuse th…

Media outrage often leads social changes like car safety, food safety, pharmaceutical safety, etc.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#254

Post by meowface » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:04 AM UTC

frabbit wrote: post #231

saagarjha wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Cloudflare keeps trying to position themselves as not being in the business of deciding what can be on the internet, but they have twice made the decision to do so. Also, since you mentioned it and hence made this disclaimer obligatory: I have zero sympathy for 8chan, and I don't agree with the views espoused there.

That is exactly it. Once they have expressed a private moral judgement about what they consider acceptable they have opened themselves up to being accountable for all the other content they do allow.

Most providers make hundreds or thousands of decisions like this per year. Cloudflare doing it twice ever in 10 years of existence, both times in response to ideologically-inspired mass murder and platforms that stoked the flames (intentionally in the first case and by negligence/refusal in this case), doesn't really mean much.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#255

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:05 AM UTC

robbrown451 wrote: post #158

saagarjha wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Cloudflare keeps trying to position themselves as not being in the business of deciding what can be on the internet, but they have twice made the decision to do so. Also, since you mentioned it and hence made this disclaimer obligatory: I have zero sympathy for 8chan, and I don't agree with the views espoused there.

They are making it crystal clear that they "do not take this decision lightly." Not everything has to be so black and white.

[deleted]

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#256

Post by ggggtez » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:05 AM UTC

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #178

King-Aaron wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are practically a utility. LOL. They are not.

They kinda are. DDoS protection is only viable at massive scale, but is table stakes for any website with content that someone out there might find objectionable.

E-mail isn't even a utility.

Please educate yourself on the law here. Most everyone in tech wants the internet to be a utility, but it's not. An individual internet company's product offering is definitely not a utility.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#257

Post by SlowRobotAhead » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:05 AM UTC

procgen wrote: post #167

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Until we collectively acknowledge that it's real humans behind these actions and create modern ways to identify and prevent them Surely this has no downsides at all. For example, you can rest easy because YOUR ideas and YOUR opinions will never stray off the “approved” line. ... how is it people in tech can’t see past their own noses on things like this?

>YOUR ideas and YOUR opinions will never stray off the “approved” line Perhaps they will, but there should still be a line. There will continue to be political mechanisms in place to shift it.

That line is already in the legal system, and the ISP, and probably a couple other places along the way. It shouldn’t be at a content middleman too.

CF needs to stay out of it because they are no setting a precedent to be the gatekeepers of “what is good”.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#258

Post by internet_user » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:05 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #91

When I was younger I thought I was a few speech absolutist. Then I went to where was free speech was absolute and saw what was discussed. Now I favor moderation.

Of course, the only bad speech is speech you personally dislike?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#259

Post by abootstrapper » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:06 AM UTC

cambalache wrote: post #71

Who is going to deplatform Facebook and Twitter? After all plenty of shooters have used them too. Before the usual: " But 8chan is a cesspool of bla bla" Probably it is, but, either the users are doing something ilegal in the site and you close it if the owners refuse to comply with a legal request, or they are not doing anything illegal so they have to be left alone. For the "Free Speech is freedom from government p…

People of color, and LGBT are demographics. White supremacy is an ideology (a reprehensible one at that). People choose their ideology, not their race, or sexuality. They are not the same thing. Third party businesses should not feel any obligation to do business with "dudes who blabber" about the murdering and hate of others.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#260

Post by voidwtf » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 3:06 AM UTC

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #178

King-Aaron wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are practically a utility. LOL. They are not.

They kinda are. DDoS protection is only viable at massive scale, but is table stakes for any website with content that someone out there might find objectionable.

Many other providers provide DDoS protection. Just not for free. Let them go to OVH, Azure, etc....