Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Guide to Slack import and export tools

get.slack.help

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 529 posts

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#321

Post by stale2002 »

pera wrote: post #151
simias wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, but what if the company wants to find proof of, say, two employees colluding to exfiltrate sensitive data or something like that? Would they have to convince them to turn in the PGP signed logs? More generally like the parent I don't see why a company couldn't have full control over their corporate tools.

> two employees colluding to exfiltrate sensitive data or something like that In that case spying Slack usage is simply not enough: the employer should need to spy every single move every employee makes inside and outside the company, which of course it's not possible (well, except if the company is located in a fascist state).

Not everybody is going to send one time pad private key encrypted messages using a 1000 characater password.

It turns out that having access to slack alone would probably catch 95% of situations.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#322

Post by wfo »

cechmaster wrote: post #142
random4369 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an infinite space of solutions to your particular problem, but your chosen solution is totalitarian surveillance in the workplace because an intern got offended? I avoid workplaces which force shit like this. So do all the good developers I know, because they're people who can afford to be choosy. Bullies are pretty adept at functioning in these environments. Instead of harassing on monitored DMs, they'll mak…

I think you're mixing up the way businesses run and how society should run. Two different things.

Businesses are society, we are forced to spent the vast majority of our waking life under the thumb of one so we should absolutely decide how we want that life to go.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#323

Post by nstoe098ntaoe »

vijayagrawal18 wrote: post #275
prewett wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would your solution to the OP's problem be? If harassment is happening, I expect the company has some legal requirement to act. I also expect that you support the company making a safe workplace. How does the company do that if it cannot verify that something is actually going on? Just blindly believe the accuser without confirming if it's true? Just disbelieve the accuser? Tell them to work it out themselves…

Ask the harassed person to show their slack to start with.

And if the harassment itself wasn't over Slack, but just the discussions of it between 2 harassers, then what?

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#324

Post by staticassertion »

peterkelly wrote: post #194
tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

No one is watching you or treating you like a child. This is important for security and legal reasons.

Insider threat is a serious, real world problem - consider employee harassment, exfiltrating data, sharing secret information, a compromised slack account DM'ing people malware, etc.

No one wants to read your messages, and it's probably a small set of people that even can.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#325

Post by wcunning »

Cacti wrote: post #283
vijayagrawal18 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it show up in slack of receiver?? If receiver has issues, he/she can show his/her slack to get the investigation started.

And what if the issue is two employees are using Slack to discuss using a competitors proprietary information on a contract proposal? Or two employees are discussing how to arrange the books so that they don't receive margin calls while trying to hide large trading losses? You can't depend on everyone being on the up and up.

Replace "are using Slack" with "discussing at the bar across the street from the office" and what changes about the situation? If the company has an obligation to look into something, they have to look into it. They don't necessarily (and in my opinion shouldn't ever) have the need to, say, record audio of everything you ever do. What does the gray-er area of conversation in the break room at the office look like? What about the darker, gray-er area of conversation in the parking lot before you drive home at the end of the day?

My personal opinion, having avoided the MS IM client at work, is that you never say anything in writing that you wouldn't walk into the CEOs office and say to him in person. Chat of any kind, Slack included, is "in writing" and will have the same full force legal effect as email, so who's honestly surprised by this news?

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#326

Post by peterkelly »

protomyth wrote: post #209
peterkelly wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If two people want to have a private conversation, they'll just find another means by which to do it. In the long run, abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees. I would quit a job that treated me as a child which must be supervised in such a manner.

> abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees Abusing your privileged access?!? You do realize some of us are required to access those communications for a variety of reasons especially because a threat is happening? Also, I don't get a choice when the lawyer shows up and says we need to look at X's accou…

> The communication systems you use as an employee are not yours.

Yes they are. I work as a contractor, remotely, using my own personal equipment, my own personal email account, and either my home internet connection or that of whatever coffee shop or co-working space I happen to be in on any given day. My clients are all located in other cities and countries and lack a physical presence where I live. I've never had any complaints about these arrangements (yes, I do realise I'm very fortunate to be able to work in this manner).

I also work for multiple clients. Allowing one of them access to all my work-related communications would involve violating the confidentiality agreements I've signed with the others. Should I be required to divulge the trade secrets or intellectual property of one client to another to satisfy a corporate IT policy? And if I have a personal conversation with someone, which client(s) should I share that with?

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#327

Post by vidarh »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #248
s3nnyy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Compare that to our email, where I can go into anyone's messages immediately if need-be. This is all very standard corporate IT stuff that you need for HR and legal reasons." Wow, THAT is highly illegal in Europe.

Well...most work contracts I've signed said something like "working here is not mandatory and we may need access to the mailbox (which we're providing to you for your work duties), such access cases are logged and externally audited. Sign here to agree, take that door to disagree." As long as this is agreed beforehand, I'm not aware of a European state banning it - this is somewhat different from "let's go digging ar…

In most of Europe what the employment contract says must be compared to local law - it varies greatly how many rights you are able to contract away in an employment contract.

E.g. while employment contracts in the UK are often fairly long, employment contracts in Norway can be as short as a couple of paragraphs, as almost all the terms are regulated and are costly and/or difficult to deviate from for most roles and most additional terms you might add will be null and void.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#328

Post by thecosas »

netcraft wrote: post #249
protomyth wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> abusing your privileged access to conversations intended to be private (however justified you may consider it to be) will just breed mistrust among employees Abusing your privileged access?!? You do realize some of us are required to access those communications for a variety of reasons especially because a threat is happening? Also, I don't get a choice when the lawyer shows up and says we need to look at X's accou…

> because a threat is happening because an "alleged" threat is happening. Still, cause for gathering evidence, sure. > I don't get a choice when the lawyer shows up and says we need to look at X's account And now with this, they'll use a different communication method that you dont have access to and now youre back to square one. The best you can hope for is that theyre ignorant of these changes so you can catch them…

You made many good points, but I'll take issue with this one:

> If you are having legitimate complaints about your job and you want to vent or validate your concerns before proceeding, you might want to have a private conversation with a coworker - and you might legitimately be afraid that your unfiltered, undiplomatic private conversation might be taken out of context or retaliated against.

If you were retaliated against for your legitimate complaints in private Slack conversations (via firing, harassment, etc) then the records could be subpoenaed for you to prove WHY you were being targeted.

It works both ways.

Re: Guide to Slack import and export tools

#329

Post by mdekkers »

s3nnyy wrote: post #105
tvanantwerp wrote: post #13

As head of IT for a company using Slack: FINALLY. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I want to read your messages and very likely won't. But there are times when I have no choice. A few years back, a group of interns started privately harassing other interns via Slack. Only way to see it was to boot an offending intern from his work station and go into his Slack to see what was happening. We had to make all intern acc…

> "Compare that to our email, where I can go into anyone's messages immediately if need-be. This is all very standard corporate IT stuff that you need for HR and legal reasons." Wow, THAT is highly illegal in Europe.

Wow, THAT is highly illegal in Europe

No, it isn't. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/business/european-court-e...

To wit: “Today’s ruling is fairly clear in how it outlines the parameters of monitoring employees,” said Stephen Ravenscroft, a London-based partner specializing in employment law at White & Case, a law firm. “It won’t be sufficient for employers to have a general policy permitting monitoring — the policy will need to be much more detailed, outlining why, how and where employees may be monitored and explaining how any information gathered through monitoring may be used.”

Post reply on HN