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China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

reuters.com

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Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#321

Post by nitwit005 »

stuffedBelly wrote: post #308

I am Chinese and I can see how this can be exploited by both vigilente groups and the government to target individuals using the "spreading false information" clause alone. There are so many ways to trick people into spreading false information. More importantly, people are not the one to decide what is considered "false", the government is. It might be ok to make people with bad credit harder to purchase non life-es…

Yep, will almost certainly result in extortion. Take over someone's Weibo account, threaten to destroy their social score, demand payment. Or just the usual identity theft to get fines mailed to another address so they go unpaid.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#322

Post by getsugablitz2 »

tokai wrote: post #248
johan_larson wrote: post #55

To be fair we ban people with felony convictions from huge swathes of jobs, formally or informally, even if the crime happened decades ago. Also, good luck finding a place to live legally if you've been convicted of a sex crime.

>we ban people We are not all Americans. Most of the Free World does not see the USA as a lodestar in how to treat criminals.

I really don't think the original commenter was implying that everyone was an American or that the American system was the proper way to do things, especially based on his/her other posts. I see this kind of comment all the time, and it doesn't appear to be constructive but antagonistic.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#323

Post by crankylinuxuser »

mieseratte wrote: post #318
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13th Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. ---------------- Slavery is ALLOWED if guilty of a crime. So go on ahead and keep espousing "rah rah USA". We're still in a slave country.

Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? My understanding is that work is optional, comes with a very small amount of compensation as incentive, but is otherwise non-compulsory. Is any US State or Federal prison running cotton plantations in Georgia with forced, uncompensated labor?

https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation...

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#324

Post by Slansitartop »

coldtea wrote: post #300
Slansitartop wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Btw, regarding China, let's cut it some slack. No, let's not "cut it some slack" on human rights abuses in the making.

If the cure is the usual "bomb them to democracy", I'll take the abuses...

> If the cure is the usual "bomb them to democracy", I'll take the abuses...

That's a pretty flippant statement to make.

China is an authoritarian country that's moving closer to an autocracy, let's not "cut them any slack" and "take [their human rights] abuses" based on some cartoonish caricature of US actions. China is developing new forms of totalitarian social control may superficially resemble certain western practices (e.g. credit scores and background checks) but there are important differences. If you don't find that troubling, I can't really take your views seriously.

>>> For historical reasons not all countries develop at the same speed or are at the same stage.

This belies some fallacious thinking that countries develop along the same track. This is a common foolish mistake when it comes to thinking about China, which is becoming harder to entertain in light of recent events.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#325

Post by mikeash »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #310
mikeash wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virginia is unique here. Juries perform sentencing, not just finding of guilt. That’s why they asked the question.

Interesting. It certainly brings the risk of vengeful sentencing. But that brings me back to my original question: Would they have lied if they would have said "I would consider 20 years", already having made up their mind about it?

I may not be quoting the lawyer exactly, and there’s probably specialized legal meaning as well. The net result, at least as I understood it, was that they were asking if we would be able to consider the full range of sentences after having seen all the evidence and heard all the testimony. Basically, trying to screen out people who have already made up their minds, like they might try to screen out people who have already decided that the accused is guilty.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#326

Post by pishpash »

1. Yes, Chinese society values different things from Western societies on average, but there is a wide range of values in each society and a great deal of overlap with universal expectations, so don't brush it aside as a difference in culture or political desires.

2. This is going way beyond tradition or culture. Nobody enjoys this.

3. It is being pushed through for the very simple fact that it can be pushed through. Take note: politics is groups of people trying to gain advantage over others and an equilibrium requires a vigorous defense of the smallest things that are yours; without pushback you lose what's yours; nobody will grant to you, only take away.

4. Norms and ideals matter. This is being set as the norm in China, whereas other examples in Western countries are at least considered transgressions against the norm. The delineations are in different places and the outcomes will absolutely not be the same even if they look superficially similar.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#328

Post by Dan_Nguyen »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #316
eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

13th Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. ---------------- Slavery is ALLOWED if guilty of a crime. So go on ahead and keep espousing "rah rah USA". We're still in a slave country.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. eddieplan9 didn't claim that the US is a flawless, perfect nation. They're saying that despite the issues with the US (and I do agree that there are a lot), drawing conclusions between the US and China is a false equivalency and that things in China re: social freedom is much worse than here. Pointing out flaws with the US doesn't take away from his point.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#329

Post by Chaebixi »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #323
mieseratte wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? My understanding is that work is optional, comes with a very small amount of compensation as incentive, but is otherwise non-compulsory. Is any US State or Federal prison running cotton plantations in Georgia with forced, uncompensated labor?

https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation...

> https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation...

Mic.com's business model is to deliberately present things in the most inflammatory way possible to make people outraged and profit from the resulting clicks:

https://theoutline.com/post/2156/mic-com-and-the-cynicism-of...:

> During these experiments, Mic continued to bait Facebook readers into getting worked up over everything: Mark Zuckerberg’s hoodie, a high school teacher in Oregon who doesn’t believe in rape culture, people with bad opinions on Thought Catalog, people using bad hashtags, and Zazzle.com. “Mic trafficked in outrage culture,” a former staffer who left in 2017 said. “A lot of the videos that we would publish would be like, ‘Here is this racist person doing a racist thing in this nondescript southern city somewhere.’ There wouldn’t be any reporting or story around it, just, ‘Look at this person being racist, wow what a terrible racist.’” Mic had already exhausted its outrage vocabulary by the time Trump’s election supercharged civil rights violations.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#330

Post by austinshea »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #316
eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

13th Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. ---------------- Slavery is ALLOWED if guilty of a crime. So go on ahead and keep espousing "rah rah USA". We're still in a slave country.

This isn't addressing what was said.

You posted this in response to someone else's comment, and made clear that you are trying to argue with something else.

You were arguing with "rah rah USA," and that just ain't what was said.

Come on, brother, let's grow up for the sake of us all.

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