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China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

reuters.com

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Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#311

Post by Aunche »

yladiz wrote: post #303
Aunche wrote: post #243

This article is typical western fear-mongering. China can already arbitrarily detain political dissidents if they want to. This "social credit score" is nothing more than an elaborate system to enforce misdemeanor laws.

> This "social credit score" is nothing more than an elaborate system to enforce misdemeanor laws. I don't agree. It's more about making people compliant with what the government wants in society, and making those who don't follow the "social" rules in the country subject to various restrictions, essentially limiting their freedom if they don't do what the government wants. In essence they're attempting to legitimize…

That's what the western media spins it as, but is there any evidence of that? The examples listed in the article are misdemeanor laws.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#312

Post by stuffedBelly »

eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

I get your sentiment, but being an expat does not automatically put you on the ban list unless you committed crime or previously had beef with the Chinese government.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#313

Post by pm90 »

hosh wrote: post #135
pm90 wrote: post #9

The thing that worries me most about the autocracy in China is that all of these Orwellian measures would actually work and then would be pointed out as an example to abandon our civil liberties in favor of a system that may be big brotherly but at least "your kids will always be safe, never be close to any bad person" (By We I'm referring to Democracies). It may also be a uniquely Chinese thing too though. China has…

Political systems were deeply integrated with philosophical and religious streams, all braided together for at least several thousand years. As I mentioned elsewhere, this system is not new or novel in concept. Confucian ideals see people as animals on their way to being human. The cultivation of the "superior person" requires education and much socialization. This isn't what people in America should be concerned abo…

> The Chinese don't come across as complacent, though I often get that sense of complacency from the Western perspective.

No they aren't, by any means. The autocracy seems to be a serious problem, but just the rate of growth and the clear determination and dedication to progress is breathtaking.

There is also something refreshing about a culture that isn't mired in stupid questions about abortion, contraception, vaccination and climate change. i.e. a culture that actually believes in the scientific method (or at least appears to be from its actions). I don't know if this is a consequence of state censorship or what though.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#314

Post by jMyles »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #297
jMyles wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bunch of bigoted hogwash. How many times must the particulars of the system be documented and disseminated before these arguments go away completely? If you are white and wealthy, then drug possession is against the law only in vague terms on paper. It is not your practical reality. That's how the drug war has been made into the new jim crow. It's astonishingly simple, and very real. > If you wish to stay out…

> If you are white and wealthy, then drug possession is against the law only in vague terms on paper. Not to discount your other points, but this is exactly how the Chinese system will work as well. (and already does in other respects from what I have heard and read) > What a bunch of bigoted hogwash. What did he say that was bigoted? (I am serious, by the actual definition [0], not the pejorative commonly thrown aro…

Black people are 12% of the population but over half those imprisoned for drug offenses, and GP's advice is, "If you wish to stay out of the felon caste, do not break obvious laws, like those regarding drug possession."

I mean, that's bigotry. That's something I expect to read on the_donald.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#315

Post by olfactory »

smsm42 wrote: post #193
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sounds horrible, but the "Real Name" movement for online services (such as Facebook) is an equally insidious American version. Add to that Facebook’s blocking you from access to your account unless you upload a photo that clearly shows your whole face, which has been reported in recent months. Real name + financial services + facial recognition + is even worse.

I don't have my face on my FB profile, and nobody blocked me.

It's a dark pattern nudge, not a hard rule.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#316

Post by crankylinuxuser »

eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

13th Amendment:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

----------------

Slavery is ALLOWED if guilty of a crime. So go on ahead and keep espousing "rah rah USA". We're still in a slave country.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#317

Post by olfactory »

jandrese wrote: post #128
olfactory wrote: post #75

This sounds horrible, but the "Real Name" movement for online services (such as Facebook) is an equally insidious American version. When a "real name" service becomes a financial services company, we have a merging of social metadata and a conventional credit score. It does not start out as a dystopian vision. Why should Facebook charge advertisers money to show ads to people with a 400 credit score? The yield of man…

That last line was almost a direct quote from the Black Mirror episode "Nosedive".

While that (excellent) episode is perhaps a bit hyperbolic, why would a business not want to use any segmentation techniques at its disposal. Marketers call this attracting "qualified" customers, and it's why fine dining restaurants do not also offer fast food burgers via an attached drive-through, and why a five star hotel does not convert unbooked rooms into hostels.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#318

Post by mieseratte »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #316
eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

13th Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. ---------------- Slavery is ALLOWED if guilty of a crime. So go on ahead and keep espousing "rah rah USA". We're still in a slave country.

Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? My understanding is that work is optional, comes with a very small amount of compensation as incentive, but is otherwise non-compulsory.

Is any US State or Federal prison running cotton plantations in Georgia with forced, uncompensated labor?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#319

Post by mjevans »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #316
eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

13th Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. ---------------- Slavery is ALLOWED if guilty of a crime. So go on ahead and keep espousing "rah rah USA". We're still in a slave country.

If someone is found guilty and is given "community service" of a given specification as their retribution to society, is that not technically slavery (involuntary servitude)?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#320

Post by ur_all_autistic »

eddieplan9 wrote: post #293

I am deeply disgusted by false equivalency used in many posts this thread. Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. The Chinese government owns and runs more than 50% of the economy and 100% of the industries they deem essential. They can not only cut your off completely from planes and trains, but also your electricity, driver license, internet, telephone, banks, ability to get any travel docu…

Agreed. Many people in the West are sheltered and have been persuaded that we are worse than we are. It's somewhat alarming to see people pushing "The New Jim Crow" as a way to defend China. This is classic whataboutism/false equivalency, even before considering that the book plays funny games with statistics.
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