Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Honestly, the whole "you need to get them when they are young" idea never convinced me very much. It's never too late to learn a thing and often you need a certain age to actually appreciate something. You don't have to be a childhood prodigy to be good at something. While starting early is neither necessary nor sufficient for success, the question should be: do the benefits of starting early outweigh risks? Like t…
I find that a pretty strange approach to parenting. IMO you should optimize for happiness of your child, not for carefully manipulating them into the path you laid out for them. My perception of a good parent is to encourage your child to discover and pursue their own passions, even if they contradict yours. You can open doors, but they need to walk through it by themselves. YMMV.
Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
321–330 of 343 posts
Re: Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
But once I needed to use math, it was trivially easy. This is close to my experience as well. Math, for me, wasn't super difficult, but it didn't necessarily come naturally either, and I got really bored with the tedious, mechanical aspects of it in algebra, college algebra, trig, etc. Geometry and Calc I were mildly interesting, but I was handicapped a bit in Calc I because my basic algebra skills weren't as strong…
I am in kind of a similar situation. Was never really good or into math during school, been a software developer for 10+ years (mostly backend and web stuff) and at 34 am now working on my calculus and linear algebra after spending some months brushing up my basic algebra skills (which i still do on the side to keep "fit"). I am actually toying with the idea of going back to college to do a Masters in Data Science be…
Re: Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
But once I needed to use math, it was trivially easy. This is close to my experience as well. Math, for me, wasn't super difficult, but it didn't necessarily come naturally either, and I got really bored with the tedious, mechanical aspects of it in algebra, college algebra, trig, etc. Geometry and Calc I were mildly interesting, but I was handicapped a bit in Calc I because my basic algebra skills weren't as strong…
I am in kind of a similar situation. Was never really good or into math during school, been a software developer for 10+ years (mostly backend and web stuff) and at 34 am now working on my calculus and linear algebra after spending some months brushing up my basic algebra skills (which i still do on the side to keep "fit"). I am actually toying with the idea of going back to college to do a Masters in Data Science be…
Re: Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
#324Re: Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
#325My mind was blown when I came across this Github repo that demonstrates mathematical notation by showing comparisons with JavaScript code https://github.com/Jam3/math-as-code I think I often struggled or was intimidated by the syntax of math. I started web development after years of thinking I just wasn't a math person. When looking at this repo, I was surprised at how much more easily and naturally I was able to gra…
Re: Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anecdote time: I was a late bloomer in math too. From about 6th to 10th grade, I was terrible at math. I think it was because of inapplication problems. Yes, you get a word problem about Jack and Kwanzeeah trying to fill up a pail or something, it was nonsense to me. Why are they filling up a pail? Why are they using a bucket that is 173/9th's the size of the hose? Why do they have to not let it overflow? Why do I ha…
Doesn't Randall xkcd assert that the paramount math problem that most people need to do is how to split the bill fairly when you take your friend out for their birthday? If you're splitting the tip and the tax, and everyone is pitching in $3 to cover the Birthday Girl, that's more complicated than a lot of those problems they use that nobody cares about. (In fact, I think if you put all of those math problems in term…
Re: Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tying students' progress through the curriculum to their age is silly. If you think about it for a single second, the whole thing is totally absurd. Vague pre-puberty/tween/teenager distinctions make sense, but within each grouping/building? totally unmotivated. Yearly age-to-competency distinctions continue by sheer force of tradition, and are harmful to all but the totally mythological "average" student.
> Tying students' progress through the curriculum to their age is silly. If you think about it for a single second, the whole thing is totally absurd. Sounds quite logical to me. If we assume a gaussian distribution (which tests seem to verify), most kids of the same age will have the same skills/level. So at worse you mismatch what's taught to some kids towards the edges, whose level there are ways to accommodate an…
That doesn't really help us to know if the top achievers are being held back, for example. Perhaps we can speculate that lower achievers are being pulled up?
Outside school you're almost always going to be in age diverse groups; I think a larger element of that in public schools would be better. IMO it helps to emphasise that children are there to make their own education and not simply to be part of an age defined peer group where it appears you're doing something just because of your age, not because of the educational opportunity.
Re: Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
#328I studied Mechanical Engineering, and it was my experience that several professors are only interested in having the students learn how to solve problems (which in the end boil down to math and applying equations), instead of actually learning the interesting and important concepts behind them. My wife went to school for Architecture, where she learned "basic" structural mechanics, and some Calculus, but still cannot…
I've taught Calculus close to a dozen times now. I talked about integrals. I talked about derivatives. I tried to get into the intuitive nature of rates of change and the limiting process of Riemann sums. I used analogies and real-world examples and illustrations and interactive computer demonstrations.
Students don't listen to that part of the lecture. They just don't. They listen to the part where I start doing problems on the board, because to them math is about doing things, not concepts. That's only reinforced when they're asked on tests to just do things rather than demonstrate understanding of concepts. If, in a college class, you try to change that up by asking concept questions, you get bad end-of-semester evaluations because you've challenged them in a way they didn't expect and their parents aren't paying good money for them to be challenged.
(And realistically it's hard to ask concept questions at that level of mathematical maturity anyway. As answers you get mostly word salad with a smattering of misused jargon. I've tried.)
If you try to mix it up and use techniques from inquiry-based learning (Moore-style, flipped classroom, etc.) then you get a stern talking to from administration.
> , or what "infinitesimal" means.
Probably because even defining infinitesimals with anything resembling rigor is tricky, let alone using them productively. I wouldn't even try it in less than a junior or senior class. There is no such real number that is smaller (in absolute value) than every other real number yet bigger than zero. Infinitesimals, at the calculus level, are a convenient hand-wavy fiction to mask limits and a notational artifact from simpler times.
> For me that's a big failure of our current "science" education system: too much focus on stupid application of equations and formulas, and too little focus on actually comprehending the abstract concepts behind them.
I tried. Every single time I taught the class I tried to teach concepts. It's really easy to fall to the temptation of just working problems on the board every day, because trying anything else will just give you grief. Grief from the students, grief from your colleagues, grief from the administration. Grief from people like you who constantly chastise us for not being able to explain to teenagers that they should pay attention for the whole class. (I love my adult students though. Non-traditional students are the best.)
It's not worth rocking the educational boat if you don't already have tenure. If you do rock the boat you get a reputation for being hard or weird and students avoid your class anyway.
You hit a nerve. I've left academia for this and other reasons, but as you can tell I'm bitter about it.
Re: Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
#329Maybe I'm wrong, but I have always believed that if you want people to be good at math, it's their first years of education which are important, not the last ones. In other worlds, push for STEM should be present in kindergartens and elementary schools. By the time people go to high school it is to late. I never had any problems with math until I went to university, so I was merely a passive observer of everyday stru…
To me the real important thing is the attitudes imparted by your parents and peers. As noted in the article, it's acceptable to fail at math. Parents who have their own history of math anxiety probably don't really push their kids to excel in that field. Just the notion that I was expected to "get it" and keep trying until I did (perhaps helped along by some natural stubbornness) may have made the difference in my case.
Re: Math education: It’s not about numbers, it’s about learning how to think
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maybe I'm wrong, but I have always believed that if you want people to be good at math, it's their first years of education which are important, not the last ones. In other worlds, push for STEM should be present in kindergartens and elementary schools. By the time people go to high school it is to late. I indeed believe you are wrong. I started getting interested in STEM when I was 16 and now have a masters in mat…
Anecdote time: I was a late bloomer in math too. From about 6th to 10th grade, I was terrible at math. I think it was because of inapplication problems. Yes, you get a word problem about Jack and Kwanzeeah trying to fill up a pail or something, it was nonsense to me. Why are they filling up a pail? Why are they using a bucket that is 173/9th's the size of the hose? Why do they have to not let it overflow? Why do I ha…
I've been playing with computer graphics recently; I've understood trig for a long time, but this is the first time I've actually felt a need to understand matrices. Exploring applications on my own is the only way that I've really felt connected to math since maybe late grade school or early high school.