Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conjecture: the majority (by far, probably on the order of 75%-80% or more) of programming and engineering problems to be solved in a typical company or typical application will not see significant differences in performance by selecting a naive implementation. For example, in your string concatenation example, the naive solution is good enough except in situations where large numbers of strings are to be concatenate…
Sure. But at the scale of e.g. Google, Amazon, etc. how often do you think they are performing these lower level computations? From my experience: very frequently. So it's useful at these corporations for all engineers to have this understanding, I think.
Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
321–330 of 674 posts
Re: Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know about their code quality, but we consume some of their data via APIs and they periodically randomly change their non-nullable data types to nullable. Fun times hotfixing those in prod.
Funny you point this out. Google's JSON Style guidelines[1] say this: >If a property is optional or has an empty or null value, consider dropping the property from the JSON, unless there's a strong semantic reason for its existence. [1]: https://google.github.io/styleguide/jsoncstyleguide.xml?show...
This style guide entry suggests a course of action in the event that one of these keys currently has a null value.
The style guide isn't prohibiting nullable keys.
Re: Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
#323I've interviewed many times (mechanical engineering positions) for big companies (10K employees+) to small (<50 employees) and they're usually a one day remote and one day on-site interview. There would be a couple of technical questions and some technical discussions but nothing like, solve this Navier-Stokes equation for creep flow from your memory. I don't think any competent manager would even ask that to me.
Re: Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
When data comes in over the wire, you probably shouldn't be making assumptions about what's nullable. You should write a parser that fails gracefully if it receives unexpected input. It's the robustness principle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle
You're missing the point. Sure, you should make it fil gracefully on unexpected input. But Google shouldn't change APIs in a way hat causes 3rd party apps to fail at all.
Re: Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
#325As a hiring manager at Amazon, I'm super excited to talk to candidates. A new job is, after all, an incredibly important life decision on the same level as getting married or buying a house. And as a manager, making sure I hire the right people to build the kind of diverse, respectful, collaborative, representative, professional, mentoring, balanced and focused team that I can is the most important thing I can do on…
Re: Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
#326This is not a rare event. We have data on this from running Triplebyte. Almost no engineers passes all their interviews. The top cohort on Triplebyte goes on to pass about 80% of their interviews. These are strong, strong engineers (successful startup founders, ICPC national winners, Google staff engineers), and they still fail. Almost no one can consistently pass more than 80% of interviews.
One reason for this is just incentives for companies. False positives (bad hires) are far more expensive to a company than false negatives (rejecting a good person). So companies rationally bias toward rejection. To a certain extend we just have to accept this as rational. (Although I do think that companies tend to assume that everyone they reject is bad, and discount the cost of false negatives).
But I DO think the situation can be significantly improved. Interviewers vary significantly between companies. Some companies want everyone they hire to understand low-level systems and concurrency and thread scheduling. Others think this is irrelevant and want everyone they hire to be very fast and productive in modern web frameworks. Some think that CS is important, others think that it's bookish and irrelevant.
All of this makes sense (different companies do different things). The problem is that you can't tell from the outside what a company wants to see (oddly what the company wants often has little to do with the type of engineering they're doing. It seems to just be an engineering culture that develops over time). And companies themselves often are not aware of how what they want is different from what other companies want. Each company just says that they want to hire "excellent engineers", and think that that means the same thing to them as to everyone else. It's the cognitive bias where everyone thinks that the things they are good at are the core of the discipline.
This adds noise to interviews. At Triplebtye, one of the big things we do is measure this (by evaluating engineers already working at companies, and updating our model with the feedback on each candidate we send). I'd love to see this sort of approach take hold across the industry (and companies get better at advertising honestly what skills they care about).
Re: Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
#327Unlike most of HN (it seems), I like hearing from recruiters, because despite the very low signal-to-noise ratio, there's always that remote chance that one of them could be able to set me up with a "dream job". It's zero cost to me to politely reply to a recruiter and ask for more info, and I try to at least respond to everyone. What I've found is that they must have a lot of candidates they're juggling because fall…
Head hunting is very profitable. If you get a recruiter email for a company that is not that company, it's _always_ junk. 100% of the time, it is a waste of time. Ignore those, and look for the ones that are from the actual company. They have their own recruiting team that you are going to be dealing with anyway, and aren't playing the numbers game or shuffling their candidates between many different companies trying…
Tumbleweeds every time.
Re: Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
#328They are liars. They most definitely will e-mail you whatever it takes to get you into the first part of the funnel. They'll tell you its a "special project" or try and make it seem like somehow you're exactly what they are looking for. It's not true; I've been down the route a few times and have easily been able to spot the deception at second phone call. I do wonder how many brilliant people are abjectly turned off by these tactics and don't make it into these companies. But I rather think that's a good thing, call it bio-diversity. No one company should get too many very smart people.
And, unlike the OP, I can actually solve the bizarre algorithm questions they ask. Although I 100% believe they tell you absolutely nothing about the person but their ability (read: desire/motivation) to read and comprehend a basic text on the subject. No, you don't need this knowledge (unless specifically required) to be effective at your job despite what others here are posting on about.
Tech companies, once they reach a certain size, become little more than meat shops; corporate behemoths, not unlike other large companies that run the same dog and pony shows but for different kinds of human talent and capital. This is not to say they can't be good places to work, or have cool and creative teams within them, but the chances of you getting hired into one have nothing to do with the recruiting process, unless the hiring manager or manager of a specific team reaches directly out to you. If it's a recruiter doing the reaching, you'll be forced through the opaque funnel and likely lied to or manipulated in some way. Its just the nature of their job.
By far the best way to find a great job is to:
If you don't already have contacts in the industry or niche you want to work in: Go to work for a startup in the space to build your network and domain expertise.
If you do have a contact, have this person refer you from the inside. In many cases your interview process will be completely different. Following this I've actually not had to deal with recruiters much at all; maybe only as a formality.
Re: Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd love to see a company literally just looking to snap up smart people and then have them come in and kind of define their own role, one where they can add the most value. Nobody does this! I don't know about letting people "define their own role", but a lot of the biggest companies are constantly hiring without a specific role in mind. If you've got thousands of employees then your best strategy is just hire the…
The problem, from my perspective, is that I (as a candidate) have certain things I want to work on. You might have something I can do, but is it something I want to do? I don't want to be hired into a general pool; I want to be hired for one of the specialties I am interested in.
Google et. al. are hiring generalists because they want people of a mindset such that when the entire special-purpose they hired them for dissolves, they're willing and eager to ramp up on a new project and new challenges instead of saying "Well, the foo project is closing down and foo's pretty much what I wanted to do, so I guess I'm going to quit (and take all the knowledge and skills Google spent time and money to train me up on with me)."
Re: Why I Don’t Talk to Google Recruiters
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to memorize 1000 algorithms. Honestly you could have a really good understanding of when and how to use about 10 algorithms and probably do very well on most interviews.
The problem is each company will ask you a different set of algorithms, and you're not sure which they'll ask, so you effectively have to memorize a LOT more than 10 if you want to be prepared for whatever they throw at you (not literally 1000, but maybe 40 or 50, which will take considerable time to prepare for, in addition to all the other preparation or unrelated questions they could end up asking you (architectur…
I have a friend who was interviewed at Google, rejected, then interviewed again a year later, rejected again, and then a year later a Google recruiter got in touch to see if they'd like another interview. They said it started to feel like a cruel joke.