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From OS X to Ubuntu

nicolas.perriault.net

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Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#321

Post by empthought »

drvdevd wrote: post #264
pjmlp wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, GNU/Linux needs less fragmentation. It needs a full OS stack, from the kernel to the UI toolkit, that is guaranteed to be the same, across all distributions. Where are the Mac OS X frameworks on GNU/Linux? Nowhere, because each distribution might be using a total different way to play sounds, music, doing SIMD, process images, accessing databases, UI toolkit ....

This has actually always been one of the major benefits of FreeBSD (and other BSDs too). I consider it an accident of history that Linux won out. We (devs, sysadmins, users) chose this fragmentation for some reason I still don't understand.

Don't kid yourself. If IBM had thrown its weight behind FreeBSD instead of Linux in 2000-2001, Linux would be the greener-grass "what if?" OS and FreeBSD would be on most of our phones. Individual users had nothing to do with it.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#322

Post by calvin_ »

fnord123 wrote: post #241
developer2 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. The fact that hardware - though much improved in the past 15 years - is still a crapshoot on Linux, particularly when it comes to laptop hardware, is so frustrating. Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware. OS X will work on any hardware it is permitted to operate on. Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "ju…

>Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware. I strongly disagree. When the dinosaurs roamed the Earth and I tried to dual boot, Debian ran everything on my desktop from the get go. For Windows, I had to hunt for drivers for all the hardware, or use the provided disks (which was annoying since I hadn't originally bought an optical drive)

Nowadays, that's not an issue with Windows. On all my machines, the drivers either came with Windows or Windows downloaded them from Windows Update.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#323

Post by l0b0 »

StavrosK wrote: post #138
rhodysurf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For personal use its the most up to date and because its rolling release i never have to actually upgrade or wait for releases. Also newer kernels for newer hardware.

Doesn't that break things too often? I always run across at least one breaking change on each new Ubuntu version, and I'd imagine this happens much more often with a rollling release OS, is that not the case? Also, how is packaging? With Ubuntu, someone always has a PPA for everything.

I've been running a full system upgrade (now in https://github.com/l0b0/tilde/blob/69f7997f77f1a380be89d36e2...) just about daily on my desktop and two different laptops for years, which even Arch people seem to consider too bleeding edge. As long as that keeps working infinitely more often than an Ubunto upgrade I'll keep doing it. Nobody was more surprised than me, but rolling distros (or at least Arch) are fantastic.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#324

Post by fb03 »

chmike wrote: post #318

I have an Ubuntu desktop and a Macbook air laptop. On the Desktop computer I have a TypeMatrix Bépo keyboard which is great for French people writing French text and coding. What I'm missing on my Ubuntu computer is Word and Excel. LibreOffice is very far from the quality of Word. So I use my Mac when I have to write word documents but the Mac interface is a pain. I had a windows laptop but although the hardware was…

I feel your pain and sadly, the only way I could find around this issue was to use a virtual machine running Windows 7 with Office 2010.

I have used Libreoffice's Writer with some degree of success. My dissertation was written in it and some of its specific features are actually more advanced than the Word counterparts, mainly: automatically numbering pictures and tables, auto-TOCs and formatting styles. Word does all that but Writer is way more flexible in this regard.

What I couldn't adapt to, though, was the gap between MS Excel and Libreoffice's Calc. The difference in functionality and usability is huge :-( Just try to properly format a bunch of cells in Calc and you'll realize how cumbersome and painful it is.

The virtual machine approach works nicely but then you have another box to mantain. Since mine is just for Office I leave it Internet-less and that makes for another set of adaptations (ex.: how to put and remove content to the VM, need to use CIFS/Samba for that, etc).

o/

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#325

Post by pjmlp »

vacri wrote: post #311
pjmlp wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, GNU/Linux needs less fragmentation. It needs a full OS stack, from the kernel to the UI toolkit, that is guaranteed to be the same, across all distributions. Where are the Mac OS X frameworks on GNU/Linux? Nowhere, because each distribution might be using a total different way to play sounds, music, doing SIMD, process images, accessing databases, UI toolkit ....

> that is guaranteed to be the same, across all distributions. Then there wouldn't be "distributions", plural. > Where are the Mac OS X frameworks on GNU/Linux? Where are the macOS servers? Where is macOS running on a raspberry pi? Where is macOS running on your home router? On your watch? On your supercomputer? GNU/Linux does just fine. macOS suits one use case, and one only (though it's very visible); don't make it…

From Apple point of view those examples aren't interesting from business point of view.

If GNU/Linux wasn't free as beer and people had to pay for it, all those use cases would never have happened.

Hence why it is almost impossible to sell software to GNU/Linux users, and one has to get by writing books, selling consulting services or support.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#326

Post by aruggirello »

nachtigall wrote: post #298
aruggirello wrote: post #290

Shameless plug: wish me good luck - I'm going to open an ecommerce for Linux- & BSD- preinstalled laptop & desktop computers in Italy (because that's where I live). Mind you, it's a small business, initially limited to reselling OEM-preinstalled systems already available in the wholesale market, but if it works, I'm planning to launch my own models, too. Any suggestions?

Look at what your competitors did and why they failed. There's been two or three businesses like this in Germany in the 2000s - and I think they were not too successful (cannot remember their names). Mostly, because preinstalled with Windows and then installing yourself is still cheaper than buying from a small, single trader.

I know it's a tough market, but if other small electronics & pc shops can manage to survive it, perhaps I can make it too.

I believe those missed the point about Linux. They thought the rage was all about saving the costs of Windows licenses, and they could not survive the aggressive licensing program of the late Windows XP/Vista period, when Microsoft practically gave away licenses almost for free. I don't believe it's about costs. IMHO it's more about freedom.

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#327

Post by StavrosK »

antouank wrote: post #256
StavrosK wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it that you like about Arch? Maybe I should give it a shot, although with Ubuntu you know you'll have both the solutions and the software available somewhere.

Almost everything is most up to date, in ubuntu you get versions that can be years old. And no, that doesn't really mean it breaks things. I have antergos for a couple of months now. I have about 1500 packages installed, never got anything broken like I had the `sudo apt -f install` every few weeks in ubuntu. And ubuntu comes a bit bloated out of the box. At least for a "normal" power user that knows how to install t…

Hmm, that's interesting, thanks. I currently have provisioning scripts for Ubuntu that will set up any machine just the way I want it from scratch with one command, so moving all that state is not trivial, but Arch sounds very interesting. I'll give it a try, thank you!

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#328

Post by aruggirello »

pawelkomarnicki wrote: post #294
aruggirello wrote: post #290

Shameless plug: wish me good luck - I'm going to open an ecommerce for Linux- & BSD- preinstalled laptop & desktop computers in Italy (because that's where I live). Mind you, it's a small business, initially limited to reselling OEM-preinstalled systems already available in the wholesale market, but if it works, I'm planning to launch my own models, too. Any suggestions?

Don't do it.

Please elaborate. Are there specific reasons you think I might not have considered yet?

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#329

Post by aruggirello »

thepiwo wrote: post #296
aruggirello wrote: post #290

Shameless plug: wish me good luck - I'm going to open an ecommerce for Linux- & BSD- preinstalled laptop & desktop computers in Italy (because that's where I live). Mind you, it's a small business, initially limited to reselling OEM-preinstalled systems already available in the wholesale market, but if it works, I'm planning to launch my own models, too. Any suggestions?

Do you already have a Name/Website? Will you only offer Desktop and Server PCs?

Not yet, but I'm working on that. Server market is tough, I won't do that, at least initially. I'm oriented towards hardware that may be suitable for developers/DevOps: laptop, desktop.

Edit: to clarify, desktop might range from dirt cheap commodity hw to high profile workstations. So no blades, rack-mounted stuff etc. (I don't know what fits your definition of server).

Re: From OS X to Ubuntu

#330

Post by Recurecur »

kriro wrote: post #211
developer2 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Linux laptops: buy pre-installed. The fact that hardware - though much improved in the past 15 years - is still a crapshoot on Linux, particularly when it comes to laptop hardware, is so frustrating. Windows will work on practically any combination of hardware. OS X will work on any hardware it is permitted to operate on. Linux is the only consortium of operating systems that still suffer from the inability to "ju…

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that the solution is "another closed-source unix/linux-based operating system that throws away X.org and its attempted modern replacements, that can directly compete with OS X" We don't need more closed, we need more open. What we need is massive rewards for open hardware via customer money. As long as wireless cards and graphics cards are closed by default and drivers are BLOBe…

'I strongly disagree with the sentiment that the solution is "another closed-source unix/linux-based operating system that throws away X.org and its attempted modern replacements, that can directly compete with OS X"

We don't need more closed, we need more open.'

The main problem with Linux, IMO, is its inability to attract proprietary software. And while I really like many aspects of open source, it has devalued software (and software developers) in general for many people. Further, Linux has been largely an exercise in "borrowing" the most successful ideas from proprietary software. It has also been a poster child for poor UI design and inconsistency between applications.

I love the idea of a macOS competitor using FreeBSD. It could include Linux compatibility as FreeBSD does now. For bonus points, write the entire new GUI in Swift...

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