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Why not just a simple spreadsheet of salaries?

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Re: Why not just a simple spreadsheet of salaries?

#321
post #306

One thing to note here: European salaries are often quoted post tax, so they look substantially smaller than an American job with similar take-home.

In the UK, it's always gross, pre-(employee-paid)-tax yearly salary.

In Slovenia, on the other hand, it's usually net, post-tax, monthly salary.

Re: Why not just a simple spreadsheet of salaries?

#322
post #314

Glaring differences between US and European developer salaries. In europe >100k salaries in western/scandinavian countries are quite uncommon for anything below team lead/CTO level while lots of junior guys seem to earn that kind of money in the US.

TL;DR: in Europe salaries are usually discussed after taxes, whereas that amount with all taxes (on both employee and employer) can raise that sum around 2 times or more. Don't forget the huge system difference. Are those salaries before taxes or after taxes? Europeans like to know their salary after taxes. Health benefits, PTO, parental leave? In US it's totally under your company's grace, where in Europe most of th…

Are you sure?

In the UK, it's always gross, pre-(employee-paid)-tax yearly salary.

In Slovenia, on the other hand, it's usually net, post-tax, monthly salary.

Re: Why not just a simple spreadsheet of salaries?

#324
post #314

Glaring differences between US and European developer salaries. In europe >100k salaries in western/scandinavian countries are quite uncommon for anything below team lead/CTO level while lots of junior guys seem to earn that kind of money in the US.

TL;DR: in Europe salaries are usually discussed after taxes, whereas that amount with all taxes (on both employee and employer) can raise that sum around 2 times or more. Don't forget the huge system difference. Are those salaries before taxes or after taxes? Europeans like to know their salary after taxes. Health benefits, PTO, parental leave? In US it's totally under your company's grace, where in Europe most of th…

Norwegian salaries are always quoted pre-tax, and are similar to those that GP mention, in Sweden. Most skilled Norwegian devs would double their salary if they moved to the US. Why this is the case would be a very interesting question to get answered.

Re: Why not just a simple spreadsheet of salaries?

#325
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well here's the rub, I work as a teacher, which is one of the most highly unionised workforces. I feel deeply sorry when I hear about the awful state of employment (in the US in particular). At will employment, 'unlimited' PTO, healthcare tied to employment etc. It's just so dehumanising and hostile. Doubly baffling is the average Joe's seeming distaste for unions. Here's a sample of the conditions I can enjoy as a t…

>$100k salary with guaranteed yearly increases that outpace inflation (this year was a 2.5% increase while inflation is at around 1.6%) I find it hard to believe that people advocate for such fundamentally unsustainable arrangements. Guaranteed raises outpacing inflation that aren't tied to performance at all? Nobody should be surprised when the costs to support a workforce that trends towards mediocrity (why try whe…

You seem unaware that "market forces" do exactly the same thing, with the difference that it's investors and not workers who demand eternal and infinite inflation-beating returns across the entire economy.

I've long suspected that one of the prime dysfunctions of US corporate culture is the projection of greed, puerility, incompetence, and worthlessness by management onto "lower" workers.

In reality the whole point of being a professional is that you get paid well, you produce good results, but it's not just about the money - because you have an ethic of personal pride in your work, and will over-deliver if you're allowed to.

The worst kinds of corporate management in the US spend an incredible amount of time trying to enforce this state in theory, while simultaneously undermining it in practice.

The best kinds of state ownership around the world prove that it can only flourish in a more mature, stable, and sane environment.

Re: Why not just a simple spreadsheet of salaries?

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst posts certainly get downvoted and flagged. The problem is the posts that sound reasonable but aren't. It gets tiring and somewhat depressing trying to educate people about the same things over and over again.

That could be because lots of people just ignore these topics on a Web site. I'll argue in person, but it achieves nothing over the Web except to annoy me, so I pass over the comments or articles.

Not intending to talk down your comment, but some of the most annoying gender-topic discussions I see on HN are the ones of the variety "there is no gender problem in tech/on HN/online". And there's plenty of those, including flagging/deletion of threads that bring up a legitimate discussion or an under-discussed perspective of this.

Re: Why not just a simple spreadsheet of salaries?

#327
post #306

One thing to note here: European salaries are often quoted post tax, so they look substantially smaller than an American job with similar take-home.

As I posted elsewhere, Norwegian salaries are always pre-tax but are substantially smaller than for similar positions in the US.

Re: Why not just a simple spreadsheet of salaries?

#328

Glaring differences between US and European developer salaries. In europe >100k salaries in western/scandinavian countries are quite uncommon for anything below team lead/CTO level while lots of junior guys seem to earn that kind of money in the US.

To be fair to European salaries, you need to convert them to pre-tax numbers. There is a 33% employer's tax that is not counted in the numbers shown here. So 50% should be added to the salaries in the spreadsheet for Scandinavia at least to more accurately reflect the pre-tax numbers.

Re: Why not just a simple spreadsheet of salaries?

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where/how does one find such positions?

There are job boards that specialize in listings that are willing to accept remote workers. http://weworkremotely.com is one. You could also easily top that on an online freelancing site like Upwork. I have friends that are Upwork-exclusive and make upwards of $200k per year. It takes a while to get that going, but it's a great option if you can swing it.

For the remote workers among you, the similar freelancing spreadsheet might be interested.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11335661

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