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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

ariannasimpson.com

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#311

Post by boon »

sliverstorm wrote: post #161
ossreality wrote: post #7

Where do people get off thinking they have the right to touch others, especially repeatedly, unreciprocated? So many of these tech, gender, sex issues would be pre-empted so many times if people simply respected some basic boundaries, were less presumptive and thought about their actions. I'd love to know what that groper would've done if I'd walked in, as a guy, and immediately started hitting on him and touching hi…

I think it's pretty simple; human courting is chock full of nonverbals and hints and read-between-the-lines. You take a guy who understands he's supposed to pick up on these things and be bold, but is quite bad at detecting whether interest is reciprocated, and tadah- you have this blog post. Supporting evidence that I felt greatly bolstered my theory- Not long ago I went for a kiss with a girl I barely knew. I knew…

Bingo, bingo, bingo.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#312

Post by boon »

sliverstorm wrote: post #191
ossreality wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I uh, I do understand what you're saying. My empathy is overflowing, and I've seen friends that have gone from timid to "over confident" in order to find more success in dating... so I can understand that a million thoughts were flying through his head when he decided to go for it. BUT, the two were strangers, in a topic-oriented setting, and she rebuffed his first attempt. That could have, and should have been the e…

You're right, it could have/should have stopped at the first rebuff. But it does make quite a lot of sense that someone who we are already assuming is very bad at reading attraction and social clues might miss or chose to ignore the first rebuff, especially when it is an indirect rebuff like the one in this story.

Here's how she responded to that,

"I try giving him the benefit of the doubt and make some quip about his being a friendly sort"

To be fair, we don't know exactly what she said, but I can imagine a few ways that she could have said this that would have come across as playful, not corrective. I'm not accusing her of anything of course, but combined with the fact that you pointed out that this guy might not have the social intelligence to pick up on the hints, anything that could be construed as playful would have been.

It's still his fault for missing the hints, but it definitely turns him into socially inept, not sexually assaulting.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#313

Post by wonderzombie »

dragonwriter wrote: post #270
wonderzombie wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody ought to ask you to do something you're uncomfortable with, and nobody ought to expect you to be the social enforcer or whatever. I empathize 100%. But if a woman's body language seems particularly bad, or you know your friend/acquaintance only just met this person? That seems like a good opportunity to speak up without "interrogating" people, as you put it. Truth be told, it's more about friends who enable th…

But people can (and many do) engage in socially unacceptable behavior more, or exclusively, in contexts in which their friends (or people that know them more generally) aren't around to recognize them and observe it.

Who's suggesting you need to police everybody? Think of it like being an ally or a spotter, not an enforcer or inquisitor.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#314

Post by DorintheFlora »

boon wrote: post #310
DorintheFlora wrote: post #227

My concern with posts like this is that a) men currently hold most of the power b) attacking their behavior in a confrontational manner tends to close doors, not open them and c) I do not see it offering a real solution. I am female. I think about such things a lot and have, in the past, written about my own negative experiences. But my concern is that this does not give us a path forward.

Not that I have a problem with your premise, I'm just curious what criteria you used to determine a)?

Men currently hold most of the "worldly" power -- political offices, CEO positions, etc -- and, on average, make about 150% of the money women make in the U.S.*

* (These stats may be a bit out of date but I have no reason to believe that they have changed substantially. HN itself is a very male dominated forum and it is a place to meet and greet power brokers and god help you if you are a woman. It is not a very friendly place for a woman trying to make professional contacts, etc.)

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#315

Post by 2gg2rg »

jpwright wrote: post #157
2gg2rg wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many more posts like this are needed to convince you that the whole community of tech meetups is hostile towards women? A whole lot more, because I don't see this shit at the tech meetups I go to.

Looks like you have some reading to do. Here's a good place to start: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents

One of them was by a registered offender who they shouldn't have hired, another was PG admitting he didn't know young women all that well, so it doesn't support what you seem to be implying all that well, unless the month I looked at isn't representative. And also there's the fact that the list doesn't report the number of meetups/cons where no incidents are reported. But as I said before, I'd certainly need to see it happen at the events I attend before I believe it happens at all events or that the entire community is hostile towards women. You might as well list all such crimes reported in the US and use that as evidence that everyone living in the US is a misogynist.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#316

Post by mikeleeorg »

meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

Not everyone is able to "nip it in the bud" as easily as you may be. I'm not saying you're wrong, just pointing out that the solution you cite is not always easy.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#317

Post by eevilspock »

NateDad wrote: post #296
selmnoo wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly? It's unclear. The rules here are soooo murky, and so very dependent on so many things that there's really no telling. Some girls are simply okay with it -- hell, they even like it when some guys do this. Note, that's some girls. It all depends on things like context, culture (of the place, company, country, etc.), situation, history, the persons involved, the social standing of the persons involved, the phy…

Wow, no, 1000 times no. You are officially part of the problem. Saying this is a murky situation, saying some girls like it (I don't care if you qualified it as "some" girls)... not ok. The only time it's ok is if you know the woman and know she's ok with it. It's NEVER ok when it's a stranger. Yes, someone else should have spoken up about it and said "Hey, dude, WTF are you doing? Leave her alone." The fact that no…

> You are officially part of the problem.

Exactly. As is the tone of some other HN responses herein. Little outrage at the men's behavior and much criticism of or advice for Simpson. Not much better than men who blame the victim for being raped.

EDIT: I just read more comments. So sad. Just a tamer version of the same ignorance and male chauvinism that blames women for being raped, or stigmatizes them for coming forward.

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