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LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

tomshardware.com

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Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#311

Post by lazide »

ryandrake wrote: post #295
imoverclocked wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what about all the cloud enabled spyware? How would that work? (/sarcasm) Truly though, smart-home stuff runs the whole gamut of privacy and device manufacturer relationships. eg: I have used three different smart/room AC units: - one requires its own cloud-enabled app for any remote connectivity, no HomeKit integration - one integrates with HomeKit but then leaves an upgrade hint that can only be done through a…

Manufacturers just need to realize that LANs exist and allow their devices to be used with the Internet turned off. When I'm sitting in my home and I want to turn off the AC unit in the other room or close my garage door, there's no reason I should have to do an IP roundtrip to the manufacturer's server. Both devices are on my LAN. They should just talk to each other. This has been a solved problem for decades.

Lowest common denominator? They have to round trip due to various NAT/router/firewall/App BS.

Your average ‘idiot’ can barely get a managed App to work, and that typically requires some kind of cloud endpoint to co-ordinate.

Other stuff is the land of prosumer.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#312

Post by lazide »

tclancy wrote: post #259
cogman10 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. It's probably easier to do and every bit as accurate as just using a screenshot. And it's still exactly what I don't want them doing. There's literally zero reason for LG to be building an advertising profile on me because I was foolish enough to buy one of their…

> There's literally zero reason for LG to be building an advertising profile on me because I was foolish enough to buy one of their TVs. I feel like the world is bossed by people who read (well, ok listened to a 5 minute summary on a grindlife podcast at 1.5x speed) about the Trojan Horse and thought they smelled a business opporunity.

By and large, that has been my experience.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#313

Post by BeetleB »

fn-mote wrote: post #131
BeetleB wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. It apparently is. Do you know the Nielsen Ratings? That's exactly how they know what people are watching these days. I've been contacted by them to be one of their subjects. They ship you a device that listens and recognizes based on content. They look for certai…

This seems like a credulous argument based on no facts you have provided. If you explained how the box was hooked up, it would be easier to judge whether there was a chance you were correct. As it is, your description isn’t even clear whether or not the box contains a microphone.

LMGTFY was made for people like you.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#314

Post by lazide »

corysama wrote: post #305
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have also wondered about the possibility of media emitting some kind of hidden identifier. Can normal speakers emit noise outside of human hearing that could contain a unique id? Would not even need to be a lot of data that could be broadcast.

That's not necessary. If a service has access to the raw audio of a show, it can fingerprint each second of that audio in a way that can be matched in a tiny amount of computation even for a recording in a noisy environment. That can't recognize what you say. But, it can ID where you are in a specific show out of zillions of hours of shows.

Notably, the caught the TV also recording and transmitting recorded audio and transcripts from the microphone.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#315

Post by lazide »

spydum wrote: post #146
fn-mote wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a credulous argument based on no facts you have provided. If you explained how the box was hooked up, it would be easier to judge whether there was a chance you were correct. As it is, your description isn’t even clear whether or not the box contains a microphone.

nielsen's ACR method is embedded into millions of devices and vendors. No need for a microphone, it's processing the audio signal being sent out. A microphone would be a wasted conversion.. (your car infotainment also likely has nielsen tech in it most likely, as they bought arbitron and gracenote)

Notably, the TV was caught making audio recordings and transcripts of conversations, and sending them to LG, independently of all this.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#316

Post by qlte »

trinsic2 wrote: post #307
wongarsu wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be looking for what's now called a "dumb tv". But those are getting rare, because TVs that can't sell your watch data have to be more expensive to make up for that, and that doesn't sell. Commercial screens are an option, as are computer monitors. Or getting a smart tv and never connecting it to the internet. So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know.…

I think it would be less time consuming to build one yourself.

Less time consuming than just ... not connecting a new TV to WiFi?

It's pretty straightforward to get dumb behavior out of a modern smart TV as long as you're satisfied with the factory installed firmware version.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#317

Post by mcmcmc »

Neywiny wrote: post #15

Bold from the verge, as clicking the link to go to the official statement took me through 3 redirect trackers as picked up by my browser/extensions (I think ubo to be specific)

What are you talking about? The linked article is from Tom’s Hardware…

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#318

Post by qlte »

GreenVulpine wrote: post #165
ygjb wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of good reasons that are used to paper over the abuse cases. Microphones in tvs are a useful accessibility feature when they enable voice commands for the user, and allow them to be used as voice assistants. They also enable tvs with a camera and microphone to be used as video calling or audio calling interfaces. Used well we get star Trek view screens, used poorly we get little brother monitoring. For…

There's no practical reason for most people. Spying is the primary function. Edge cases like accessibility or conferencing can be easily enabled with an add on USB mic. You'd need a USB webcam with mic for conferencing anyway.

People use voice commands on TV remotes all the time if they're using streaming apps. At this point it's the default way to interact with the UI for many people.

Typing out the show you're searching for with an awkward onscreen keyboard is a huge pain compared to just clicking a button and speaking.

HN users are very much in a bubble if it's surprising to learn consumers expect voice control functionality on a new TV.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#319

Post by delecti »

canucker2016 wrote: post #181
alt227 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was enabled when you accepted the terms and conditions when you first turned it on, or did a firmware update. LGs statment says this: > ACR is an optional feature that is turned off by default. To enable ACR, a user must accept LG’s Viewing Information Agreement, which describes how ACR works. Which I take to mean that when you agree to the terms, it enables the feature.

At 5:58 of the Gamers Nexus (GN) video about LG TV's spying, GN make a statement: Now, our lawyers have made the totally unrelated point uh that we cannot legally agree to contracts such as terms of service or conditions while incredibly innebriated. So they drank a lot of margaritas while video-recording the section concerning reading and accepting the Terms of Service for the TV. Take that LG legal dept. see https:…

I don't think that would hold up in any court in the world. While sober, and in coordination with legal counsel, they made a plan to accept the terms and conditions. That's like a kid swinging their arms around on a playground while saying "I'm not touching you" levels.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#320

Post by Neywiny »

mcmcmc wrote: post #317
Neywiny wrote: post #15

Bold from the verge, as clicking the link to go to the official statement took me through 3 redirect trackers as picked up by my browser/extensions (I think ubo to be specific)

What are you talking about? The linked article is from Tom’s Hardware…

Huh. I didn't know you could change the URL. It used to point to https://www.theverge.com/tech/994333/lg-responds-to-tv-spyin...
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