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Should DayQuil Be Legal?

theargumentmag.com

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Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me first get our agreement on the word hostility: > a state of unfriendliness, antagonism, or ill will Do you agree on this definition? Assuming so, I hear you asking how can asking particular questions get you this? I'll assume you have good will and are willing to engage with friendliness. Simply asking specific questions about health, about diseases, about diet, about social media addiction, about controversia…

> Do you need more examples? Hopefully I don't come off as hostile but there were no examples in your post. What were your questions? Did you also show an open mind and willingness to engage?

I thought these were examples

> Simply asking specific questions about health, about diseases, about diet, about social media addiction, about controversial topics like politics, etc release hostility from a handful of people. These people engage with ill will and not friendliness. And it is assumed by them that the asker (me usually) meant unwell

Specific instantiation: during COVID after vaccines had rolled out, I asked my social network on Facebook who had experience with Ivermectin. I have used it successfully myself, and even my vaccinated parents used it successfully when their recommended treatments and advice was not successful for managing pain and symptoms. I got a lot of hostile and ridicule and mockery along with being called a murderer, by people I knew, simply by asking questions. I wasn't recommending to take it. I received people making lots of assumptions about my vaccine status simply because I was asking questions, people lumping me in with conspiracy theorists and being anti-science and more.

Edit: I showed lots of curiosity and inquiry into what was said, though there wasn't an opportunity to engage in what was an agenda of prejudice and hostility that wasn't open in return and not willing to deviate from what the engager believes to be true.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#312
legalize pseudo and codeine again. prohibition is literally killing people. its forcing everyone to use less effective otc drugs where you need to take a more dangerous dose for the same effect.

and when its harder to get codeine or real percs/oxys/xans/anything else people get fake street pills laced with fent. thats how they od and die.

all these drugs should be sold with alcohol like rules (free access for adults/over 21, Rx only for minors) and warnings explaining exactly how to take them safely, both for "legit" and recreational use. the harm of drugs is half accidental ods and half organized crime. this defeats both and if cocaine was legal too, cartels would go out of business in a year.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#313
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's a really weird tone for a hackernews comment.

It's really not. HN turns into the most scolding, puritanical Mormon when it comes to the topic of alcohol.

I just don't like the fatties getting uppity because they managed to get ozempic.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#315
"Most studies have found that dextromethorphan performs the same as a placebo and some suggested it was worse than honey."

Something tells me this is because they're using it at the dosages listed.

Because let me tell you, it certainly does NOT do nothing if you take more...

Part of the issue though is that 1 in 10 people have a CYP2D6 enzyme deficiency and if you take the tablespoon or so that would be more effective (that a pharmacist I used to work with advocated for) you REALLY shouldn't be driving (or going to work for that matter).

Phenylephrine of course is absolute garbage -- they just felt like they had to leave people a placebo for when they took away pseudoephedrine from the shelves to stop people making meth out of it.

Beyond that, I do sort of agree that putting all of these actives into a single product entirely prevents you from working the doses for what actually is effective. If you have a product full of acetaminophen you CAN'T then just take more of it to get the effective dose of dextromethorphan (and I'm not even sure there IS an effective dose of phenylephrine, but if there is it's definitely higher than what's on the label).

Not gonna say "there should be a law!" because I don't think anyone needs men with guns coming for them over this, but I do wonder why anyone buys this crap when the individual active ingredients can all be purchased and used in appropriate amounts.

But I guess most people just take what the label tells them to...

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to chastise you or your wife, there is an actual "Liver Warning" on Tylenol Product labels. They warn against 4000mg/day or with alcohol consumption. It's not an on/off switch, the damage occurs on a ramp that achieves a critical point after so much consumption. Saying this to encourage label reading and to refute those who might try to characterize your wife's experience as anecdotal. And for those who stop read…

It appears his wife took under that threshold and only for a few days. 4000mg is roughly 8-10 otc painkillers in a day (depending on the brand). That said, everyone's physical ability to metabolise drugs is different. I might worry something else was wrong, or at least get a followup test done later, if her liver tox screen showed that, just to rule out another cause.

Everyone's ability to metabolize drugs being different has a lot to do with why the labels end up advising less than is effective for many people. Dextromethorphan surely is NOT ineffective, but at 2 tsp, yea, it aint gonna do much of anything (unless you're CYP2D6 deficient -- then, it may still do a LOT depending on how deficient).

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#317

The article kinda glossed over it, but one fact under-appreciated by the general public is just how dangerous acetaminophen overdoses can be . Scientists often talk about the "therapeutic index" or "safety ratio" of a drug. It's the LD50 (dose at which 50% of recipients die) divided by the effective dose. Common hard drugs like heroin or methamphetamine have a safety ratio of about 6-10 [1]. "Soft" drugs like marijua…

Therapeutic index of fentanyl is much higher than heroin or morphine, but I don’t think people really think that it makes it safer.

Fentanyl isn't all that unsafe, aside from the habituation potential.

When your measurement is "that looks about right" when purity is entirely unknown, not much really is all that safe.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. 4g is generally considered perfectly safe and is fairly commonplace dosing. 7g can kill you. Hence a therapeutic index of This is why you have to be very, very careful. If you're doing 8 500mg Tylenol pills and then you also do 6 doses of DayQuil or Mucinex without realizing it's also acetaminophen, you can end up needing a liver transplant.

I wonder why it is not a more commonplace useage for suicides. Females seem to enjoy overdoes more, and men seem to enjoy violent ways. But female sucicides often "fails", seems like eating a box of Tylenols (here they come in 20 packs) would solve the "being alive" issue quite quick, no? Better not tip people off... :) >end up needing a liver transplant You won't get one nor should you get one if the reason is this.

Most intentional overdose suicides are hoping to drift off to sleep and not wake up. That is NOT what happens with an acetaminophen overdose.

It'd be like intentionally eating death cap mushrooms.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#319
post #274

The article kinda glossed over it, but one fact under-appreciated by the general public is just how dangerous acetaminophen overdoses can be . Scientists often talk about the "therapeutic index" or "safety ratio" of a drug. It's the LD50 (dose at which 50% of recipients die) divided by the effective dose. Common hard drugs like heroin or methamphetamine have a safety ratio of about 6-10 [1]. "Soft" drugs like marijua…

Perhaps it's useful to know that NAC is the treatment for acetaminophen toxicity, should you happen to find yourself in the middle of a zombie apocalypse with a Tylenol ODed friend and a supplements isle handy but no readily available medical support. :D There has been some suggestions that acetaminophen products should contain NAC to offset some of the toxic effects, but I dunno where they've gone-- there probably i…

Add yet another benefit to NAC.

Also works wonders for COVID spike protein detox.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#320

This article uses the trick where you pick studies that support your argument and ignore all of the studies that disagree with it. There are other studies where Dextromethorphan improves both objective and subjective measures of coughing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37232330/ They also picked a study that shows honey outperforming Dextromethorphan but ignored all the studies that show honey performing similarly o…

And, all of this, to avoid selling a little bit of the narcotic codeine. Which was technically permitted to be sold "behind the counter" without prescription, but was made Schedule II as part of cough syrup in the US not long ago. (It used to be Schedule III or IV when combined with homoatropine or promethazine).

Just buy poppy seeds in bulk and make a tea. They wash 'em, but not enough to get all of the opium off the outside. Okay but really maybe don't do this unless you're gonna be careful because I actually have known a guy who ended up with problematic morphine habituation this way.

That said, dextromethorphan works just fine on its own (if you take enough -- 2 tsp is nonsense). Why they feel the need to mix in a bunch of other actives is beyond me.

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