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Should DayQuil Be Legal?

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Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#121

Post by projektfu »

Aurornis wrote: post #35

This article uses the trick where you pick studies that support your argument and ignore all of the studies that disagree with it. There are other studies where Dextromethorphan improves both objective and subjective measures of coughing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37232330/ They also picked a study that shows honey outperforming Dextromethorphan but ignored all the studies that show honey performing similarly o…

And, all of this, to avoid selling a little bit of the narcotic codeine. Which was technically permitted to be sold "behind the counter" without prescription, but was made Schedule II as part of cough syrup in the US not long ago. (It used to be Schedule III or IV when combined with homoatropine or promethazine).

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#123

Post by nostrademons »

m_a_g wrote: post #116
nostrademons wrote: post #96

The article kinda glossed over it, but one fact under-appreciated by the general public is just how dangerous acetaminophen overdoses can be . Scientists often talk about the "therapeutic index" or "safety ratio" of a drug. It's the LD50 (dose at which 50% of recipients die) divided by the effective dose. Common hard drugs like heroin or methamphetamine have a safety ratio of about 6-10 [1]. "Soft" drugs like marijua…

In most countries 4g is the upper limit and it is considered perfectly safe within that limit. So 8 500mg pills in 24 hours.

Yes. 4g is generally considered perfectly safe and is fairly commonplace dosing. 7g can kill you. Hence a therapeutic index of This is why you have to be very, very careful. If you're doing 8 500mg Tylenol pills and then you also do 6 doses of DayQuil or Mucinex without realizing it's also acetaminophen, you can end up needing a liver transplant.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#124

Post by MichaelDickens »

gavinray wrote: post #54

"DXM does nothing", proceeds to link a study whose contents describe significant decreases in cough severity versus placebo. I am convinced that many people ask LLM's "give me a citation URL" and don't bother to read it.

I read the main section of the lit review linked by OP, and it didn't seem to come to any real conclusions.

> The results of this review have to be interpreted with caution because the number of studies in each category of cough preparations was small. [...] There is no good evidence for or against the effectiveness of OTC medicines in acute cough.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#125

Post by Melatonic »

nekusar wrote: post #85
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, despite all efforts to educate people, many STILL don't know that antibiotics don't work against viruses and will want one when dealing with a cold or other viral infection. If we let antibiotics be over-the-counter, every damn infectious bacteria will be a super-strain in a year.

Antibiotics are routinely given to all of their farm animals as part of their food, for prophylaxis. But allowing humans to buy when they're sick is somehow the super-strain-end-of-times?? Antibiotics stop bacteria. Antivirals stop viruses. Except bacteria can be attacked whenever, the sooner the better. Antivirals need a rapid and early timeframe to work. Getting a fucking doctor to say yes is almost always too long…

Those are two separate issues and we obviously should not be just giving feedstock and animals antibiotics constantly. That's no good for anyone.

Maybe the better solution is that the government should be paying for the Lyme test as a public health measure. Knowing which areas it is spreading too is extremely important.

And on the flip side I know someone whose father got Lyme but didn't know it for years - he was not very symptomatic at first and ended up with major nerve damage. Not one to mess around with

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#126

Post by bigfishrunning »

nekusar wrote: post #85
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, despite all efforts to educate people, many STILL don't know that antibiotics don't work against viruses and will want one when dealing with a cold or other viral infection. If we let antibiotics be over-the-counter, every damn infectious bacteria will be a super-strain in a year.

Antibiotics are routinely given to all of their farm animals as part of their food, for prophylaxis. But allowing humans to buy when they're sick is somehow the super-strain-end-of-times?? Antibiotics stop bacteria. Antivirals stop viruses. Except bacteria can be attacked whenever, the sooner the better. Antivirals need a rapid and early timeframe to work. Getting a fucking doctor to say yes is almost always too long…

> Antibiotics are routinely given to all of their farm animals as part of their food, for prophylaxis.

That's also a problem [0]; and it's one that can't be solved by creating a second, somewhat related problem.

0: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11200672/

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#127

Post by bigfishrunning »

Marsymars wrote: post #30
bigfishrunning wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons doxycyclene is so effective is because it's less overprescribed. Antibiotic resistance is a real thing, and the day we run out of viable ones is going to be ugly. Having a gatekeeper isn't a bad idea.

I generally agree, but it seems darkly comical to be worried about gatekeeping antibiotics as a tick disease prophylactic when the vast majority of antibiotics are applied non-therapeutically to farm animals.

So what you're saying (and I agree with) is that antibiotics aren't gate kept *enough*

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#128

Post by Melatonic »

nekusar wrote: post #29
bigfishrunning wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons doxycyclene is so effective is because it's less overprescribed. Antibiotic resistance is a real thing, and the day we run out of viable ones is going to be ugly. Having a gatekeeper isn't a bad idea.

That's why I went amoxycillan. I can buy medical grade as "fish antibiotics". Alpha-gal wasn't prevalent then. It was primarily Lyme and rocky mountain spotted fever. Doxy and amox is the gold/silver standard for both. I don't need a fucking doctor to tell me I was bitten by 15 ticks. I removed them myself with a tick puller. I don't need to he told that I probably got a disease from at least 1 of them. So yeah, its…

You make a good argument for expanded use for true "OTC" meds (Over the Counter - as in can't be sold on the shelf in bulk but has to be given by an actual Pharmacist).

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#130

Post by the_real_cher »

Aurornis wrote: post #35

This article uses the trick where you pick studies that support your argument and ignore all of the studies that disagree with it. There are other studies where Dextromethorphan improves both objective and subjective measures of coughing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37232330/ They also picked a study that shows honey outperforming Dextromethorphan but ignored all the studies that show honey performing similarly o…

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