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Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

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Re: Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

#311

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

SoftTalker wrote: post #143
Animats wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh. It's Softbank exiting humanoid robotics at Softbank's discretion. That's a lot different than " Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics". Hyundai bought them years ago. This is just the last 8%.

Seems like a mistake. AI in its current form has limited usefulness for most people. Not something I would pay for to use outside of work. But a household robot that could clean, wash and fold the laundry, do the dishes, maybe even be a chauffeur... that would be huge. I think a lot of people would pay new-car money for something like that.

They're not making household robots. They have a factory robot that only needs to operate in a controlled environment and boost profitability.

Re: Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

#312

Post by fnordpiglet »

vips7L wrote: post #275
bayindirh wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. It's all fair use. Otherwise AI companies can't repackage and sell what's out there for free. On a relevant note: https://www.theverge.com/news/674366/nick-clegg-uk-ai-artist...

It might be "fair use" on the way out, but AI companies certainly didn't pay for a copy of every book in existence to train on. It's also straddling a super fine line between legality and morality.

It’s actually likely fair use on the way in as well. What’s not fair use is the production of copyright material with the model and the question is the extent to which model providers have to prevent it. These topics came up with the photocopier, VHS tapes, etc. The training side is more subtle because they are clearly unlicensed and used in the model but this is actually similar to taking a book and photocopying sections and using them for handouts and in training materials or other uses. The crucial part is they effectively destroy the original material in training and no where in the model is the copyright material, even if they can produce something similar when deliberately induced to do so. However you the user induced it, and depending on what you do with what you induced, you can violate the original copyright holder. (N.b., IANAL, but these are my summaries of discussing with a law professor at length who specializes in copyright, open source, etc)

Whether it’s moral or not to not remunerate everyone who produced the training material is of course important but a different question. I sort of agree with Sanders et al that Ai should be a public trust like the Alaskan oil reserves. But good luck.

Re: Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

#314

Post by j-pb »

btown wrote: post #127
j-pb wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These robots operate on completely different principles. One can lift insane weights, has insane torque, and absurd precision, and can do the same movement millions of times with virtually no deviation. You program these with an exact movement plan, just like you would programm a CnC with a tool path. They are basically cnc machines. The other one is a inacurate, unstable, dynamic system controlled by neural networks…

It's also worth noting that when e.g. inputs to a stage might have unpredictable defects or alignment, a robot arm utilizing neural networks for planning and analysis might still be the best way to handle that - without the extra degree of freedom of movement-relative-to-floor, planning can be done more rapidly, and movement can be executed more aggressively and quickly. If I were Hyundai, I'd be looking at this as b…

> movement can be executed more aggressively and quickly

That's exactly the reason why it's usually a bad idea to run a classical robot on a neural controller. If atlas bumps into something you get a small bump and maybe a broken atlas. Your average industrial robotic arm will happily yeet whatever it bumps into across the room.

Re: Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

#315

Post by prmoustache »

nonethewiser wrote: post #269
OtherShrezzing wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> robot maid that could clean, wash and fold the laundry, do the dishes, etc. would be huge. I think a lot of people would pay new-car money for something like that. Once you take maintenance of a machine with price-parity to a new car into consideration, it’s surely cost competitive to just hire a human to do all those things. The price needs to fall drastically below new-car territory before it’s competitive with m…

A new car is what, $25-50K? Thats a one time cost. How much do you think youd need to pay a maid every year to do your cooking, cleaning, laundry, dirty dishes etc? Coming once a day for 2 hours would be very expensive and still wouldnt be comparable to a robot that you own and is constantly deployed. And at that point you’re probably comparing owning a robot to renting one.

Most people buying a new car don't pay them in one payment, they either lease or credit.

A car has a number of periodic maintenance to do + in most country some tax and some yearly technical inspection.

This is non counting the energy required by that car, electricity or gasoline

Re: Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

#316

Post by Danox »

dh2022 wrote: post #171
Forgeties79 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're paying cash/under the table, then maybe. But even then a twice a week household cleaning hire is going to cost upwards of $1500/mo unless you're being particularly exploitative. If you're not under the table, you're paying payroll taxes, probably paying for a payroll service, etc. so you're talking $2000+. At best you can maybe stay under $20k a year. When you really look at the economics of it, a robot tha…

Who spends new-car money to clean their homes? Maybe ultra high net worth individuals? I know people with 8 figures net worth who spend a fraction of that money for cleaning their homes.

None...

Re: Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

#317

Post by Danox »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #227
SoftTalker wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a mistake. AI in its current form has limited usefulness for most people. Not something I would pay for to use outside of work. But a household robot that could clean, wash and fold the laundry, do the dishes, maybe even be a chauffeur... that would be huge. I think a lot of people would pay new-car money for something like that.

I would be more worried about the Chinese owning this market (like they did with robovacs) and not leaving much for Korea/USA outside of the defense market. We are still 5 years away from a general purpose functional household robot, but the rate of advances, even if they slow down substantially, will get us there.

The west can compete but lack the will to do so see the consumer drone market, note that attitude had better change or else the rest of the century is going to be hell.

Re: Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

#318

Post by tootie »

SoftTalker wrote: post #143
Animats wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh. It's Softbank exiting humanoid robotics at Softbank's discretion. That's a lot different than " Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics". Hyundai bought them years ago. This is just the last 8%.

Seems like a mistake. AI in its current form has limited usefulness for most people. Not something I would pay for to use outside of work. But a household robot that could clean, wash and fold the laundry, do the dishes, maybe even be a chauffeur... that would be huge. I think a lot of people would pay new-car money for something like that.

We're probably still decades away from that kind of robot. And I firmly believe the domestic robot revolution will not involve any humanoids. It'll be a few purpose-built machines that resemble nothing organic.

Re: Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

#319

Post by Danox »

Mistletoe wrote: post #257
SoftTalker wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a mistake. AI in its current form has limited usefulness for most people. Not something I would pay for to use outside of work. But a household robot that could clean, wash and fold the laundry, do the dishes, maybe even be a chauffeur... that would be huge. I think a lot of people would pay new-car money for something like that.

Don’t you think SoftBank has more insight and a ground level view on their own investment though?

SoftBank at times seems to be clueless with some of their investments, Arm Holdings was their best however...

Re: Hyundai buys Boston Dynamics

#320

Post by acheron »

ckemere wrote: post #122
serf wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

automotive workers unions started around 1918 and became major political players in the 30s -- a fact that i'm sure is wholly unrelated to why there are so many un-automated tasks in that industry.

Amazon warehouses still have a huge number of ununionized workers doing manual labor

> ununionized

Wouldn’t that just be “ionized”?

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