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Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

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Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#311

Post by sophrosyne42 »

baked_beanz wrote: post #302
sophrosyne42 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Destroying buildings due to being booby trapped by Hamas; booby trapping I seem to recall was mentioned earlier in this thread as a war crime.

You're claiming that every building destroyed by an Israeli airstrike was booby trapped by Hamas...? Even if that were the case, destroying those buildings with civilians inside is still a war crime

I'm claiming there is a reason that Israel destroys buildings you neglect to mention. Recognizing that reason strongly undermines your assertion of systematic targetting. There is a fog of war, and war is messy, so a charitable outlook should exclude blase confidence about the matter.

You're mixing two different things with the civilians in buildings. The mass building destruction we see is done on buildings after evacuation to dismantle booby trapped buildings. Israel does frequently do strikes on buildings or infrastructure that contain civilians, but that is a different kind of action with different reasons and circumstances (e.g. collateral damage of strikes on military targets, etc.)

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#312

Post by Protostome »

amarcheschi wrote: post #205
baklavaEmperor wrote: post #126

What’s striking is how often these ‘small’ surveillance tech stories trace back to the same state-aligned ecosystem. When Israel does it, it’s treated as a complex security issue. When another ‘bad’ country does the same thing, we immediately call it espionage. And almost on cue, the discussion drifts anywhere except the uncomfortable fact that it’s the same ecosystem from the same country showing up again.

I mean, it's literally the same thing that happens when past genocides are bad, but when they happen today from an ally of the west... "it's complicated". Except this time happens on the technological side rather than the humanitarian one

[flagged]

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#313

Post by Protostome »

gatlin wrote: post #297
FridayoLeary wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're right - Palestinians don't deserve to be murdered by people who don't like them.

They murdered primarily by Hamas, either directly or indirectly by their war tactics that prioritize civilian casualties.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#314

Post by pjmlp »

crmd wrote: post #204
baklavaEmperor wrote: post #126

What’s striking is how often these ‘small’ surveillance tech stories trace back to the same state-aligned ecosystem. When Israel does it, it’s treated as a complex security issue. When another ‘bad’ country does the same thing, we immediately call it espionage. And almost on cue, the discussion drifts anywhere except the uncomfortable fact that it’s the same ecosystem from the same country showing up again.

it’s a tough infosec situation because the tel aviv-haifa corridor in israel has an enormous amount of computer science R&D going on that gives US companies a competitive advantage. for example, annapurna labs in haifa develops the technology behind AWS’s nitro cards, which run the hypervisor, block storage, and networking in every EC2 server.

Also Microsoft's BlueHat security conference always takes place in Israel, and probably that is where Azure security R&D offices happen to be located.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#315

Post by lysp »

sophrosyne42 wrote: post #272
baked_beanz wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and destroying or damaging >2/3rds of all structures in Gaza and killing tens of thousands of civilians with airstrikes isn't? Obviously yes, Hamas and Hezbollah indiscriminately firing rockets at Israel consistute war crimes. I assume you must agree that Israel's systematic targeting of schools, hospitals, mosques, and refugee camps would also qualify?

Destroying buildings due to being booby trapped by Hamas; booby trapping I seem to recall was mentioned earlier in this thread as a war crime.

See if you can identify in any of these clips, a single non-damaged building.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcqIDKf1uYU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yvJiW-Ndj0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFUkfmnCR7U

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#316

Post by pjmlp »

crmd wrote: post #277
dijit wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, us over in Europe have been uncomfortable for a while due to the US surveillance apparatus having total dominion over the underlying systems that run our countries. So, its a little bit tone deaf to hear these complaints from Americans honestly. We’re told that we’re uncompetitive (yet when rising startups happen they’re bought out before being too large)- we’re told that we shouldn’t run on anything exce…

I think USA tech hegemony is perfectly analogous to this Israeli tech dilemma. As a dual American and EU (Irish) citizen, should my company strive to categorically avoid Intel and Nvidia technologies for national security reasons? I think there is a strong argument for tech nationalism but there is still a hegemonic dilemma.

The main problem, even if you would avoid Intel and NVidia, is that during the last decades we confortably let OS and programing languages driven by US companies take over.

So you might go with ARM, RISC V, but still have to make use of an OS and programming stack with strong ties to US based companies, even if open source.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#317

Post by tovej »

dijit wrote: post #305
tovej wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you also for engaging in a civil manner. I still don't understand how you can view the Israeli foundation myth, and the "fear of an existential threat" as legitimate, when the Israeli state's founding was an unjust, immoral, wrong undertaking, the foundation of a colony on someone's homeland. If a perpetrator breaks into a house and kicks out the homeowners, then declares the attempts to take back said house as…

I try my best when trying to understand things, to think about how people have it today, and not to tie everything to what peoples ancestors did. The only thing people can really do today is to acknowledge the past, and to do something about it, and if we’re taking the Israeli perspective now, then what we’re essentially telling them to do is not exist. Many are fine with that being the case (why should they exist wh…

I have not said that Israel should not exist, that is your extrapolation.

Israel should be held accountable for what it has done, and if it does not further a two state solution, it should be sanctioned by the international community. Current and previous political leaders should be prosecuted for war crimes, and the country should be reformed into a secular democracy.

That's it, that's my stance.

Now, I don't see any of this happening, and I see a genocide being committed.

You're then characterising any military response as genocidal. This no longer feels like an honest response. First, it's Israel that has decided it wants to be an ethnostate, the only reason it would seem genocidal is because Zionists have conflated a religion with a nationality with citizenship. The bad actor of Israel should still be a valid target of military actions just like others are. Would you say that the allies committed a genocide when they attacked Nazi Germany in the second world war?

And where are you getting these ideas of "invading forces slaughtering everybody"? This is starting to sound like Zionist propaganda. I'm sorry but hypothetical threats do not matter when compared with actual apartheid and genocide.

The Palestinians have always been the less violent party. Israel is also a much more violent and offensively postured military actor than Iran, they developed nukes in secret for chrissakes, and they seem to have immunity from international sanctions.

Israel could choose to live in peace by changing it's military posture, by not constantly attacking its neigbours and destabilizing the region. They currently illegally occupy territory in Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon. They could simply stop doing that to begin with.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#318

Post by FridayoLeary »

Kab1r wrote: post #291
FridayoLeary wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As opposed to the rest of the world who believe you must let yourself be murdered /s

That certainly seems to be their attitude. If israel had listened to all of the advice from Britain and France it may well have been 60k Israelis dead. Imagine how many palestinians would have died. Nobody here is arguing against israel in good faith. If anyone had genuinely cared about the palestinians they would have put massive pressure on Hamas and put their full support behind a quick and brutal campaign. What would have happened? A 2 month long war and 20k dead max.

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#319

Post by sophrosyne42 »

lysp wrote: post #315
sophrosyne42 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Destroying buildings due to being booby trapped by Hamas; booby trapping I seem to recall was mentioned earlier in this thread as a war crime.

See if you can identify in any of these clips, a single non-damaged building. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcqIDKf1uYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yvJiW-Ndj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFUkfmnCR7U

It is pretty trivial to look up recent sattellite imagery and find undestroyed buildings, but that takes more interest in facts than finding youtube videos

Re: Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy

#320

Post by dijit »

tovej wrote: post #317
dijit wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try my best when trying to understand things, to think about how people have it today, and not to tie everything to what peoples ancestors did. The only thing people can really do today is to acknowledge the past, and to do something about it, and if we’re taking the Israeli perspective now, then what we’re essentially telling them to do is not exist. Many are fine with that being the case (why should they exist wh…

I have not said that Israel should not exist, that is your extrapolation. Israel should be held accountable for what it has done, and if it does not further a two state solution, it should be sanctioned by the international community. Current and previous political leaders should be prosecuted for war crimes, and the country should be reformed into a secular democracy. That's it, that's my stance. Now, I don't see an…

Thanks for clarifying. Your point on Israel choosing peace by de-escalating, halting attacks on neighbors, and ending illegal occupations in Palestine, Syria, and Lebanon hits hard. It is a straightforward path to de-escalation that demands action. But as of today, November 18, 2025, the US-brokered ceasefire in Gaza holds broadly, with Israeli forces withdrawn to the “yellow line” and a UN Security Council vote underway for a new Gaza security force that could lead to full Israeli pullout. Trump calls it historic, though Hamas rejects it as insufficient.

This moment tests your idea: if Israel follows through on withdrawal and curbs West Bank settler violence (which has surged, with over 200 attacks reported this month alone), it could prove goodwill. Yet ongoing tunnel operations and regional strikes (like recent hits in Lebanon) show the military posture persists, fuelling distrust.

Pushing Israelis to empathise means seeing Palestinians not as perpetual threats but as equals deserving sovereignty. Many modern Israelis; weary from two years of war, economic hits, and global isolation… privately crave normalcy. They fear that unilateral retreats invite repeats of October 7 or Hezbollah barrages, especially with Iran arming proxies. Ending occupations could shatter that fear cycle, but it requires mutual security guarantees, not just Israeli concessions.

Your WWII analogy still fits: Defeat the aggressors’ system, not the people. Target occupation and apartheid policies surgically. Dismiss their fears, though, and hardliners win. Shared trauma acknowledgment, without equivalence, could spark real dialogue. What gap do you see?

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