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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

311–320 of 373 posts

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services And now we know what Estonia's single point of failure is. An adversary only has to hack one system to bring an entire country down. That sounds a bit scary to me.

Having an ID issued by a central authority does not mean it can only be used by the central authority in a way that it becomes a SPoF. Attacking the DMV doesn't make licenses vanish into thin air either for example.

Attacking the DMV doesn't make licenses vanish into thin air

Nevada's DMV was part of a hack a couple of months ago, and it caused chaos beyond just drivers licenses.

https://www.2news.com/news/local/nevada-restores-fingerprint...

This is an excellent real-world example of why having all your data eggs in one basket is a terrible idea.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't specifically said anything, but they have directly compared the ID to phone based payment card systems, which on the google side do rely strictly on a google-blessed android build[0][1][2]. It's also incredibly popular in the security industry (I know, I work in it) to claim that every possible app in existence must: * Obfuscate * Do root detection and refuse to work * Detect attempts to attach a debugge…

I agree that reliance on non-UK based companies (Apple/Google) is a problem, but to me that's not specific to digital ID. We already have age verification relying on mobile apps, via the online safety act, just not ones implemented or managed by the UK gov, instead managed by non-UK corps with the data going offshore For me having ones managed by the UK gov filling those functions would be preferable to the current s…

The fact that 95+% of the population is unaware of the problems with this doesn't make it okay. There are lots of things 95% of the population don't know or think about which we don't just throw our arms up and ignore.

Moreover, age verification is trivial to circumvent or opt out of. The only way to opt out if this thing will likely be to leave the country. Which certainly increasingly seems like a good idea to me.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#313
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we stop immigration?

I mean it's obvious to anyone who isn't an idiot that we shouldn't. However, populist parties banging the drum on this are looking likely to be at least the second biggest party in the next general election (and that comes with some wishful thinking given the recent polls). Labour's approach seems to be to validate their scaremongering but to claim they can deal with it without going full on Third Reich...

Oh, yes, I understand. Yeah, if this is meant to speak to Reform voters, it’s really unclear if it actually makes sense to them or anyone if this is actually an immigration thing.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#314

Just today Switzerland said YES to E-ID https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/votes/202509...

But fortunately "Use of the e-ID is voluntary..." in their case. Whereas in the UK it's being pushed as a (for all intents and purposes) mandatory thing.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an ID issued by a central authority does not mean it can only be used by the central authority in a way that it becomes a SPoF. Attacking the DMV doesn't make licenses vanish into thin air either for example.

Attacking the DMV doesn't make licenses vanish into thin air Nevada's DMV was part of a hack a couple of months ago, and it caused chaos beyond just drivers licenses. https://www.2news.com/news/local/nevada-restores-fingerprint... This is an excellent real-world example of why having all your data eggs in one basket is a terrible idea.

Nevada's DMV is a great example what happens without eID. Agencies that have a better idea about people's identity have been forced to do things like background checks and fingerprinting. Your data eggs in one basket, or a few.

If you attack the DMV in a country that has working eID it will only affect the DMV. Maybe you can't sign up for a driving exam or order new plates. That's it. It won't affect the police in cases that don't concern the DMV (like insurance) and vice versa. Sure if you attack everything at once everything will be affected, that's always an option, eID or not.

Fundamentally a digital ID does not mean a single "basket", just that wherever those "eggs" are that you know it's one single "chicken". That "chicken" can also have multiple ways of identifying themselves (including offline methods). That's how it is in countries that have a working eID implemented.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#316
post #23
post #21

The labour government can not be challenged in any serious way until the next election in 4 years. Petitions don't really do anything, they will just say "no" to what the people ask for and move on with their agenda. It is disheartening to see this country follow the same path the US took, it seems as our politics become more polarised, the team sports aspect means we start seeing parties push through agendas while p…

The most cynical part is that Labour spent years accusing the Tories of wanting to do this, then introduced it themselves, dressed up as a way to cut migration. And now, if you oppose the ID, they smear you as being pro–illegal immigration. This is some very impressive politicking and exactly why many people don't trust the mainstream political parties.

The second most cynical part is that the Tories spent years trying to do this and now claim labour authoritarian dictators for doing it.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read comments in full before replying to them: > US government systems are a hodgepodge of different systems built by different vendors, over different computing eras, many of which lack a primary key relationship with something like your social security number (the current “default” identifier). Many are plagued with duplicate records, data problems, and other issues that prevent easy correlation of records w…

Please understand that supposedly poor data quality is not a defence against an authoritarian country wanting to implement a social credit system. Some national ID system won't make such ambitions significantly easier, but lack of such a system causes exactly the issues you quoted. So is this hypothetical social credit system in the hands of an incompetent government worth it all? Over identity theft and the multi-bi…

And yet authoritarian countries without such central ID have historically had to use other less targeted methods of oppression, which creates pushback and dissent within the population, leading to either the downfall of the government or intensive reforms. The threat of a “clean” system of oppression is that it will only catch actual dissidents, without sweeping in innocents. This could freeze out any chance of effective opposition.

The most effective 20th century totalitarian states, such as the East German DDR, issued ID numbers to its citizens, along with ID cards that citizens were required to carry at all times. This greatly helped the security services coordinate the oppression of suspected radicals, but without modern computer systems it relied too heavily on human efforts. It eventually faced its limits against rising dissent and it could not prevent the downfall of the government. A computerized Stasi would be much more terrifying.

One can look around the US today to see why this lack of ID may be a good thing. Immigration officials are facing serious roadblocks in rounding up and processing suspected undocumented immigrants, and mistakes in this process are creating widespread pushback. Protestors who take steps to mask their identity are not easily identified, apprehended, and prosecuted, which has led the administration to overreach in their reaction to dissent. And the lack of a unified system of oppression means that even targets of the state can often find ways to continue living in between the cracks, and they are not totally frozen out. In many ways it’s not a great system, certainly far from perfect, but the many flaws serve an important purpose in the face of systemic oppression. Inefficiency is an escape hatch.

If you live in a high trust society, you may not get it. The mutual animosity in the US is such that we have government officials talking about “national divorce” and otherwise average people joking about political murder. I know the UK is not quite as bad off, but I understand that it is quickly moving in that direction. That’s no time to introduce new potential mechanisms of oppression.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#318
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to know how this "march towards authoritarianism" actually manifests in the real world. Not just in the head space of podcast grifters and privacy nuts. I've lived in the UK my whole life. Multiple other countries have liberated themselves and then returned to authoritarian governments within my lifetime. Strangely this hasn't happened in the UK, plenty of people trying to wish it into existence though.

An average of 30 people a day are arrested for offending people over the internet (according to the Mirror) The government regularly unpersons disagreeable people. I really wish it wasn’t happening, as it stands I am not going to move back.

The hate speech laws are just badly written for the online age, which is a problem but they are not going to result in the fall of democracy.

They are catching what would normally be bigoted comments someone makes to their mates down the pub (or maybe in their WhatsApp group) and because it was posted to the world on Twitter it counts as inciting violence.

The police obviously can't investigate all potential infringements so now they have to pick and choose what they do enforce. And inevitably the ones with the most noise get their attention.

The people that do get caught up in this said something nasty they should have kept to themselves. Not something to be arrested for in most cases, but it's not an attack on free speech either. Just a badly constructed law.

Not really sure what "regularly unpersons disagreeable people" means. Shamima Begum is the only one I can think of recently. She got made an example of so a load of copy cats didn't go and join ISIS whose goal is to destroy the western nonbelievers (including the UK). Unfortunate to be made the example I suppose, but it is not a regular occurrence.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#319
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How isn’t that currently possible? In America, your bank is already required to keep a semi-permanent record of your state issued identification for anti-money laundering/terrorism financing reasons. I can see concerns about it becoming a widely used form of SSO, potentially even mandated, and that destroying privacy. However, banks and credit are cases where you already do not have that privacy, so they don’t seem l…

In the UK, your bank will have a copy of your id to prove they carried out basic id checks - it currently ends there.

The bank can, will and do report transactions to the government as well as annual interest etc to hmrc - as far as I am aware they use national insurance numbers in those reportings.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#320
post #12
post #8

[flagged]

Are you suggesting A&E should not treat you if you are unluckly enough to land on your phone as you get run over etc? Or that prescription fraud cost anything close to what the government will spend implementing a major new IT system?

> Are you suggesting

Unironically a majority in the UK would say they "are demanding it happen"

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