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Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
311–320 of 456 posts
Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
If Paracetamol was invented today it would likely never receive an OTC (over the counter sale, meaning you can just buy it from a retail outlet the way you'd buy cough medicine or toothpaste) license in the UK. Yes, it's safe (and for a bunch of people including me, effective) at the licensed dose, but it's useless at about half that dose, and it's toxic, leading to very nasty deaths in some cases, at just about 3-4…
I'm by no means an expert in assessing OTC drug safety, but your efficacy window feels... fine... to me? I feel like it shouldn't be hard to avoid taking 3-4 times the effective dose of something? But I guess people still do it, and mess up their liver anyway. I'm always very torn on how to best protect people from being stupid. The label on the bottle says not to use the drug for longer than a certain period. Sure,…
You don't need a doctor. In the UK today there are pathways for Advanced versions of several non-doctor careers which get you either limited, or in some cases full blown unlimited prescribing rights. I think ordinary Advanced Midwife is just a set of common pregnancy drugs, stuff so you can keep down food, sleep properly and so on despite some of the nastier but still non-critical pregnancy side effects, but Advanced Nurse Practitioner and Advanced Pharmacist are both full blown prescribing rights.
The only thing which I think Advanced Practitioner doesn't get you is going entirely off piste, like fuck it, maybe this untried drug will fix your cough. But the person with their name on the pharmacy paperwork can sign off any ordinary stuff, far beyond just "common cold" treatments, anti-nausea, anything a doctor signs on an average day unless they're in some weird research field. The idea isn't that you'd need a GP appointment but that probably it shouldn't be with the bubblegum and cornflakes in the supermarket without even talking to a professional.
Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
#313There really are risks. It's just not worth it during pregnancy. The pain killing effects of tylenol aren't worth the potential risks during pregnancy. https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2025/mount-sinai-s...
You can't look at just one risk and say it's not worth it. Like everything else in life, you must weigh all the risks and benefits. Untreated fever also carries real risks - neural tube defects, congenital heart defects, orofacial clefts, miscarriage. You need to treat fever, and NSAIDS have greater risks than acetaminophen. It's irrational to let a minuscule and unproven risk dominate the decision when the other sid…
To be fair, at least in the US, doctors tend to be overly cautious when it comes to pregnancies. The bar for proven safety for treatments tends to be a bit higher than for non-pregnant people. "We haven't proven anything bad" is usually not good enough.
Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
#314There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed…
This was my thought as well. I’m likely on the spectrum (as I have learned recently, because of my kids) and I would consider myself hypersensitive. To a variety of sensory inputs - noise, smell, touch, heat, cold, tickling and probably also pain. The latter being hard to quantify of course. But I could certainly imagine that a mother with autistic traits could be someone who takes painkillers more often than the ave…
It seems that higher sensitivity to pain could be a very plausible cause. I believe there's studies showing lowered (and altered) pain tolerance with autism.
Though I'd expect that if aspirin did have an affect that it'd change the prevalence or severity of autism in children having genes related to autism.
There'd be a first order correction fornthe likelihood that aspirin is causitive by controlling for increased ibuprofen and tylonol usage as well. The second order correction would be whether autistic people were more likely to use aspirin over ibuprofen or tylonol, etc.
Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure it can. Type 2 diabetes is both hereditary and lifestyle/behavioral influenced . Same with cancer, if you have cancer in your family your risk of getting cancer is higher. I would say most medical issues are both. Heart disease, gout, obesity, hypertension,strokes,asthma etc.
Let me put this a bit differently: Type 2 diabetes is both genetic and can be acquired during one's life (e.g. through bad dietary choices). But a man who develops diabetes does not acquire genetic T2D by doing so - he cannot pass it on directly to his children.
> But a man who develops diabetes does not acquire genetic T2D by doing so - he cannot pass it on directly to his children.
Epigenetic changes absolutely can be passed to children even over multiple generations--this is already proven.
Which epigenetic changes are caused by T2D and whether they predispose the next generation to T2D would be the question.
Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is like saying "The risk of a traffic accident on the way to the hospital is unacceptable so I'll make her walk 12 miles to the hospital." Walking 12 miles is not only uncomfortable, it is also higher risk to Mom and baby than driving. You have to balance all the risks and benefits.
Right. And the benefits for tylenol are small.
What is the benefit of treating fever?
Fever during pregnancy can cause neural tube defects, congenital heart defects, orofacial clefts, miscarriage.
It's great that you care so much about the infinitesimal risks of acetaminophen. You should care 100x more about these risks that are 100x or 1000x greater.
Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
#317Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either. But it turns out there may actually be some emerging evidence to support this. This recent Harvard meta-analysis [1] from just last month looked at 46 different studies and suggested that there may actually be something happening here although it's not conclusive. Correlation but n…
> Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either.
All you’re stating is that you’ve found an echo chamber - which is true of Hacker News (and Reddit, and BlueSky). It’s also true of TruthSocial. I guess my annoyance is that this is Hacker news not DNC news - and as such, I’d hope for more than one (or even two!) perspectives.
I don’t think RFK has shot his credibility - even if he did withdraw from the DNC on October 9, 2023, less than two years ago. His perspective seems stable 20 years on after he wrote “Deadly Immunity” in 2005.
If you think he lost credibility, it wasn’t recent.
Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
#318Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either. But it turns out there may actually be some emerging evidence to support this. This recent Harvard meta-analysis [1] from just last month looked at 46 different studies and suggested that there may actually be something happening here although it's not conclusive. Correlation but n…
> Judging from the comments I've seen, nobody believes this because RFK has completely shot his credibility, and I don't blame them either. All you’re stating is that you’ve found an echo chamber - which is true of Hacker News (and Reddit, and BlueSky). It’s also true of TruthSocial. I guess my annoyance is that this is Hacker news not DNC news - and as such, I’d hope for more than one (or even two!) perspectives. I…
How can anyone find him credible after he pitched a "gold standard" health report (MAHA) that had hallucinated references, misrepresented research and "oaicite" markers that indicated it was AI generated?
I don't find that to be a controversial statement.
[1] https://www.science.org/content/article/trump-officials-down...
Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
#319There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed…
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That's exactly what autism is established to be... it has some genetic factors but it develops in the womb.
Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is like saying "The risk of a traffic accident on the way to the hospital is unacceptable so I'll make her walk 12 miles to the hospital." Walking 12 miles is not only uncomfortable, it is also higher risk to Mom and baby than driving. You have to balance all the risks and benefits.
Right. And the benefits for tylenol are small.
But you aren't looking at the risks? Chronic pain can't be great for a pregnant woman and her developing fetus either, no?