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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#311

Post by mrweasel »

FrancisMoodie wrote: post #299
betaby wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Holy moly the US is kafkaesque. Not really. Try to rent an apartment in Germany (any EU country really). Canada / USA is a breeze in comparison.

What? They don't check your credit score where I live (west-eu). They check your pay slip to see how much you make monthly and if it your rent is less than half your paycheck they can decide to let you rent. After that is a two or three month downpayment that is locked in a seperate bank account specifically for this use and is released at the end of the lease. If there is no damage to the rental unit you get back yo…

What? They are in no way entitled to see your pay slip, or know how much you make. Whether or not you can pay rent is entirely your problem (North EU).

You have a deposit, typically three months rent, that's typically enough to indicate whether or not you're able to pay rent.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#312

Post by account42 »

trenchpilgrim wrote: post #209
syndeo wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but at least in prison you're (usually) fed… which may NOT be the case if you're fired from your job, put on a list, and blocked from the industry.

> True, but at least in prison you're (usually) fed… Not adequately or safely. https://impactjustice.org/new-report-provides-first-ever-nat...

Still better than the in the average US school.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#313

Post by account42 »

FrancisMoodie wrote: post #299
betaby wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Holy moly the US is kafkaesque. Not really. Try to rent an apartment in Germany (any EU country really). Canada / USA is a breeze in comparison.

What? They don't check your credit score where I live (west-eu). They check your pay slip to see how much you make monthly and if it your rent is less than half your paycheck they can decide to let you rent. After that is a two or three month downpayment that is locked in a seperate bank account specifically for this use and is released at the end of the lease. If there is no damage to the rental unit you get back yo…

They absolutely do ask for a SCHUFA report in Germany. You might eventually find an apartment without one but it's going to limit your options.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#314

Post by account42 »

wink wrote: post #303
betaby wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Holy moly the US is kafkaesque. Not really. Try to rent an apartment in Germany (any EU country really). Canada / USA is a breeze in comparison.

> Not really. Try to rent an apartment in Germany (any EU country really). Been a while for me but afaik nothing has changed: if you lived and worked here before, then a couple of your last salary statements are sufficient (bar the problem of actually finding anything and being accepted, but that is besides the point). So I am definitely not loving or defending this, but afaik compared to needing years of time to bui…

> bar the problem of actually finding anything and being accepted, but that is besides the point

It isn't besides the point at all. It being a seller's market means landlords can and do ask for whatever paperwork they want which often enough includes a SCHUFA report. You can choose to not provide it but they can also choose to rent to someone else who does.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#315

Post by account42 »

card_zero wrote: post #65
wvenable wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always move to new town and start again. The problem with all these social credit systems is that they're designed to follow you wherever you go forever. There is also zero recourse if a mistake was made; at least you can try and smooth things over with a bartender.

Yeah, automation and information sharing prevents people slipping through the cracks, and that also prevents leniency, diversity, and reason. I was musing over something, though. We have creeping Orwellian things like face recognition and the policing of chat histories. But some of this is private, as in, not done by the state. Even when done by the state, it isn't in most places to prop up the regime and prevent dis…

It's not done by the state in the west but the state conveniently lets private companies set it up and then directs those companies in various ways as to what policies to adopt.

The US constitution not extending government limitations to society-scale corporations is a very convenient loop hole. Similar situations exist in other liberal-on-the-book countries.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#316

Post by account42 »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #171
mlinhares wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, there's no increase in disorder, crime in most developed countries is trending down, but we do have a bunch of people that have collected unimaginable wealth and are definitely afraid something will happen to them like the last couple times this has happened. They definitely don't want to repeat history and will use the coercion tools they have to clamp down on the peasants.

> Nah, there's no increase in disorder, crime in most developed countries is trending down, I don't know in which world you're living so here are officials, likely downplayed, numbers for the EU, from an official EU website to get you back to earth: "In 2023, sexual violence offences, including rape, continued to rise in the EU." https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... Rape numbers are through…

Now now, let's not be racist.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#317

Post by INTPenis »

We sure do, it seems like a natural progression of a free market. The corporations want to know our worth before they deal with us.

I'm speaking from a Swedish perspective but for a long time already we had these "credit checks", where a company can quickly order a check on a customer to see if they're eligible for paying via invoice, or installments. And the consumer gets a letter in the mail notifying them of each credit check and who requested it. They basically see if you have any large debts, and what your reported income is.

But now some companies have gone even further and actually invented a credit score for us, that you have to pay them a subscription fee to see.

All this is an organic progression driven by corporations who simply want to know if consumers are worth their time and risk.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#318

Post by trenchpilgrim »

account42 wrote: post #312
trenchpilgrim wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True, but at least in prison you're (usually) fed… Not adequately or safely. https://impactjustice.org/new-report-provides-first-ever-nat...

Still better than the in the average US school.

The linked report describes a case study of a prison where rat droppings were falling from the ceiling into the prison kitchen. It also states 75% of surveyed prisoners reported being served spoiled or rotting food.

Was your school worse than that?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#319

Post by antonymoose »

alisonatwork wrote: post #264
bluedevilzn wrote: post #226

I moved from Canada to California for a new job with a mid six figure salary. I had a very difficult time finding a place to rent as I had no credit score. Only places that were available without credit score was a room to share. That was not an option with a cat, wife and kids. Finally, I found a place that was willing to accept the entire year's rent up front. Moving such a large amount of money from Canada to US h…

This exact same story pretty much happened to me when I moved to Canada about 15 years ago. I wasn't able to get a credit card for years, and couldn't rent an apartment without a guarantor, despite the fact that I was full-time employed in the tech industry, had zero debt, plenty of savings etc. What I took from the experience (especially after going through various iterations of it in several other countries) is tha…

It’s not a bias against immigrants, it’s a bias against the unknown.

I’ve had an identical experience as an 19 year old college dropout trying to rent an apartment and buy a car with no established credit history. It at least 5 years to qualify for my first unsecured card with $1,000 credit on a 6-figure salary. I could not qualify for any vehicle, not even a used cheap Honda Civic with my lack of history, and I had to play the Craigslist rental game for years as well.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#320

Post by deadfoxygrandpa »

blitzar wrote: post #219
graemep wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely true. People living authoritarian worry about what they say, they self-censor out of fear, they defer to those in power (even at a local level), they accept a hierarchy of power rather than rights. I do not entirely disagree without, but lack of freedom does intrude into day to day life to some extent.

> worry about what they say, they self-censor out of fear, they defer to those in power Sounds a lot like having a job.

its like what the old east german people said after the wall fell. i forget the exact phrase but its something like: "before, i could criticize my boss but i couldn't criticize the government. now i can criticize the government but i can't criticize my boss"
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