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Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

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Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#311

Post by BehindBlueEyes »

sadcherry wrote: post #150
batshit_beaver wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone currently in the process of trying to move from a cushy, interesting startup job to a soulless FAANG for that compensation multiple, the ONLY reason I'm doing it is because I have a young kid now. I wish there was another way, but it is genuinely impossible to provide a comfortable level of family life on a startup salary, unless your partner is also in tech and is ok with not being a stay at home parent.

> I wish there was another way, but it is genuinely impossible to provide a comfortable level of family life It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it? It's basically the top 1% speaking. And you can't tell me that the other 99% have miserable lives. > unless your partner is also in tech and is ok with not being a stay at home parent. Stay at home parent is a choice, and a pretty expensive one. One does not have to…

Can confirm that the 99% have very comfortable family lives, lower stress jobs, plenty family time... (based on having many lower income friends) Bottom n% is a different story, but a FANG salary is not a necessity unless your lifestyle choices and personal expectations make it so.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#312

Post by BehindBlueEyes »

BigJono wrote: post #205
rawbot wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just focused on getting MY stuff done and that was it. I stopped taking on other's people work... I would do exactly what a Sprint called for... This is my reason for burnout, opposite of your example. There's a thin balance doing more work because you enjoy, and doing it because managers are pushing you to do it. And now that I JUST do my job and what I'm asked to do, I have lost a lot of the drive that I loved…

My theory is burnout comes from a lack of autonomy. If your "do the minimum" is having complete control over a module and implementing features as slow as you can without pissing anyone off too much, you're going to have a great time. If your "do the minimum" is picking up the bare minimum number of Jira cards in a sunshine and roses "teamwork makes the dream work" team where everyone is responsible for every line of…

your example seems to show that autonomy doesn't matter so much if your choices are ill informed or the environment in which you have autonomy is toxic.

Personally, I think autonomy has little to do with it and lacking autonomy is dangerous to pin burnout on because it puts the responsibility on the person, when burnout is often the result of a system (broken or exploitative).

Sure having autonomy can help cope or delay burnout, but I don't think lacking autonomy is causing burnout singlehandedly.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#313

Post by BehindBlueEyes »

paulcole wrote: post #267
mrmetanoia wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really do have to protect yourself. I think at some point I felt like if I set boundaries I'd get fired, then I realized if I didn't set boundaries I'd go insane which seemed worse than fired so I started telling people "no," and logging off on time. It's been an improvement. "Will the fight for our sanity, be the fight of our lives?" - flaming lips

> You really do have to protect yourself I don’t know why this is a revelation to so many people. Who cares about you more than you do? Nobody — especially not anybody at work.

For me the revelation wasn't so much that I have to protect myself but that it wouldn't get me fired.

Maybe it is a revelation for those who haven't been taught to say no outside work?

I was told to be quiet and obey growing up, why would anyone expect me to be equipped to stand up for myself as an adult after that?

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#314

Post by Carrok »

carlosjobim wrote: post #309
Carrok wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provide for my family.

There are billions of people who provide for their families without being stressed out until the day they die. You should ask one of them how they do it. Or you are using your family as an excuse for your self destructive patterns.

Please tell me how as an average American I can take a month off work.

You blaming me for the capitalist hellscape I happen to have been born into is hilariously absurd. I have some very not nice things I’d like to say to you, but I’ll just leave it at that.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#315

Post by BehindBlueEyes »

anonzzzies wrote: post #216
brainless wrote: post #159

Giving you a big hug. I have been through really rough periods and as my health took a big toll, the only means I had to recovery was to move away from crazy startup life. Gradually I understood that, maybe, there is a better balance. I still want to learn, grow, solve problems, dream big. Instead of making 3 year plans, I started making 10 year plans. I started taking care of my health, like it is the most important…

I did roughly the same thing; I live in a small village in protected nature. I still run startups, but I sit at my stream in my forest working for them. Life is cheap here so I was able to buy a house and the land; when I feel overwhelmed, I can just throw my laptop and phone out and live out my life tinkering in the house, the land and on hardware. But since I moved (long ago) I haven't had that feeling again.

Did you already run startups when you initially moved? curious to hear how the transition went because I moved to the countryside but still have a corporate job and find it hard to let go of that safety net even though it is taxing my mental health.

Definitely better since i can hand our in a forest or work in my garden though...

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#316

Post by BehindBlueEyes »

vinc wrote: post #221
anonzzzies wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did roughly the same thing; I live in a small village in protected nature. I still run startups, but I sit at my stream in my forest working for them. Life is cheap here so I was able to buy a house and the land; when I feel overwhelmed, I can just throw my laptop and phone out and live out my life tinkering in the house, the land and on hardware. But since I moved (long ago) I haven't had that feeling again.

Same thing here. I bought a little piece of land with an old farm to renovate 7 years ago. The house is right next to a large forest, it was built 175 years ago when this area was cleared, and now I'm letting the forest come back to the parts I'm not using. I watch the small trees grow up, it's peaceful. I charge my laptop with a solar panel and got just enough mobile connectivity to be able to work efficiently. I st…

Also curious how your transition to working from a farm went.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#317

Post by carlosjobim »

Carrok wrote: post #314
carlosjobim wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are billions of people who provide for their families without being stressed out until the day they die. You should ask one of them how they do it. Or you are using your family as an excuse for your self destructive patterns.

Please tell me how as an average American I can take a month off work. You blaming me for the capitalist hellscape I happen to have been born into is hilariously absurd. I have some very not nice things I’d like to say to you, but I’ll just leave it at that.

Would you actually listen if I tried to help you? Or do you prefer being insulted that somebody does not admire your plight?

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#318

Post by Carrok »

carlosjobim wrote: post #317
Carrok wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me how as an average American I can take a month off work. You blaming me for the capitalist hellscape I happen to have been born into is hilariously absurd. I have some very not nice things I’d like to say to you, but I’ll just leave it at that.

Would you actually listen if I tried to help you? Or do you prefer being insulted that somebody does not admire your plight?

If you have a real suggestion on how I can not work for an entire month, I’m all ears. But I think you prefer to just think you’re smarter than everyone, but have no actual idea of how the world works.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#319

Post by paulcole »

BehindBlueEyes wrote: post #313
paulcole wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You really do have to protect yourself I don’t know why this is a revelation to so many people. Who cares about you more than you do? Nobody — especially not anybody at work.

For me the revelation wasn't so much that I have to protect myself but that it wouldn't get me fired. Maybe it is a revelation for those who haven't been taught to say no outside work? I was told to be quiet and obey growing up, why would anyone expect me to be equipped to stand up for myself as an adult after that?

> I was told to be quiet and obey growing up, why would anyone expect me to be equipped to stand up for myself as an adult after that?

Because you are equipped to do it. It’ll be a new experience for you but it shouldn’t take you long to figure out that it’s in your best interests.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#320

Post by MollyRealized »

I've found a solution of sorts to this all. At least one that works for me, I'll add that caveat.

It basically rests in the concept - it doesn't have to be true, it can simply be the mental model by which you operate - that we are all natural multiples, and that DID is when that system goes askew due to trauma.

As such, I am able to characterize the part of me that demands perfection, that requires things, as a soldier or as a survivor self. But I make sure that there is also a parent in the mix. I make sure that self-care is part of the makeup.

Another thing that has helped me - and it is a lesson I wish I had not learned this way - is that coping mechanisms can outlive their usefulness and kill you. I had a bipolar friend. He found a way to quiet his voices enough that he could sleep. That way was getting drunk. He died from alcohol poisoning. His coping mechanism killed him. I still miss him very much, and although I tend not to cry, his memory still easily brings me to tears. They're in my eyes now.

That can happen with any coping mechanism. Nearly all our coping mechanisms when brought too far can actually, physically kill us. My own was emotional eating.

There's lots more - and these concepts can be investigated more under the terms "integrated family systems", "parts work", and "ego family systems", among others - but the basic idea is that you have to balance out the part of you that is intent on keeping you alive by demanding perfection, by creating a part of you that loves yourself - not cheesily, not hippie-style, just loves yourself. For some, it is the parentage you may not have had, and it may be foreign, and you may need help adopting these attitudes. But there are people out there who want to help you, just out of the goodness of their professions and hearts; seek them out.

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