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Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

electrek.co

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Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#311

Post by fma »

vel0city wrote: post #152
wil421 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a huge plus for me. CarPlay or nothing. BMW is becoming closer to a Tesla like screen. GM is supposed to drop CarPlay in favor of whatever they are doing on their EVs. I don’t want my ICE/EV to become a SaaS app where I’m paying $500 a year to use my own car.

> GM is supposed to drop CarPlay in favor of whatever they are doing on their EVs IIRC its not just their EVs its all cars.

Shouldn't make such a bold IIRC statement correcting someone without first doing a quick Google to verify.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43488135/gm-apple-carplay...

Specifically it's for the new Ultium EVs. Bolts, Lyriqs, Hummers will still have it.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#312

Post by fma »

pcchristie wrote: post #305
xienze wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had to do this once or twice (its very very infrequent in my experience) This is something that’s _never_ supposed to happen. > but a very sketchy moment that I shouldn't have brought on myself while driving in that situation. How on earth can you rationalize a Tesla performing an update/hard reset while driving as _your_ fault? It should never be allowed to happen!

Tesla doesn't do that, you're misunderstanding. You can do a hart reboot on the computer by yourself, by holding down both steering will scroll wheels for 10 seconds. Fixes any glitches with the screen.

So the commenter is driving through intersections without blinkers and supposed to do that? I'm not sure if this is a joke or not.

I need to teach my grandma how to hard reboot a car without crashing?

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#313

Post by [deleted] »

brewdad wrote: post #250
LastMuel wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, we update irreplaceable spacecraft billions of miles away with new software. It should be fine to push software updates out, as long as the correct safety and fallback procedures are in place. It simply has to be designed to handle failure and procedures need to be in place to mitigate risks. It sounds like that wasn't the case here. Also, why wouldn't you have a small initial release pool when you…

NASA's philosophy is the polar opposite of "move fast and break things".

[deleted]

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#314

Post by jacquesm »

bo1024 wrote: post #228
qmarchi wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer: To clarify, more that a company should stick to their core competencies unless there's a drastic need or opening in the market that could be filled (and to build a new competency). In this particular case, there's nothing particularly unique that Rivian is doing with their Infotainment system that couldn't already be handled by an incumbent in the space, (Android Automotive, QNX, etc.) especially given how mo…

Rivian thinks of itself as a software company. The first thing you sign when you go to buy a vehicle is a software copyright notice IIRC. The first thing in the owner's manual is a notice that the software copyrights and intellectual property belong to Rivian, etc etc.

I'm not in the market but I would laugh all the way to the door if that happened.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#315

Post by jacquesm »

hef19898 wrote: post #81
mlyle wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The code went through early release tests successfully; the problem came with how it was more broadly released. They should have had further staging of the rollout (randomizing when it is offered to users).

I am still not sure why I would update software on car, a piece of hardware that, IMHO, shoupd be able to run air gapped 24/7. Exceptions: recurring bugs, GPS maps and security updates. All of which can be done either during service (preferred, if they brick it, they are liable) or by plugging in something. OTA updates just seem completely pointless... Edit: Also, why the heck isn't the entertainment system completel…

You may not have a say in the matter. Most cars are on some kind of IoT private network with their own cell modems and if the manufacturer decides to push an update there isn't much you can do about it short of ripping out the cell modem. Which may well have unpredictable consequences.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#316

Post by jacquesm »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #178
hef19898 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, our 2020 MY Jaguar controls car functions from the digital screen in front of the driver, the middle console screens only control AC, entertainment, phone, navigation and other non-car related stuff. No idea how the architecture looks behind all that so. But seriously, even if on the same bus, just don't the media player, radio and connected phone access to the systems actually running the car from engine to b…

And please, please, finish developing the embedded software running on car before shipping said car. Sorry, but things no longer work that way, and never will again. This is a good thing, as long as processes are improved to avoid situations like this one.

Things work like that just fine: buy an old car and call it a day.

The less software in my car the better.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#317

Post by jacquesm »

dagmx wrote: post #255
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget updates entirely. My car is one of the few places I expect to get software that works the first time. If you absolutely must have updates, then at least not OTA updates. Have them done at the dealership or service center so any issues can be dealt with immediately. Come on, is this engineering or hacking? This is a car, not a CRUD app. Get. It. Right.

That’s how things used to be and it resulted in lots of long standing bugs because the update rates were low, and so manufacturers didn’t push updates. Many people don’t live near dealers or service centers or can afford the continued cost (it’s not free usually unless it’s a recall) OTA is better for consumer when done properly. Other manufacturers manage it fine, and one bad example shouldn’t be what we base things…

But average quality was a bit higher because nobody thought 'oh, we'll fix that next week in the OTA update'.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#318

Post by jacquesm »

matrss wrote: post #66
cs702 wrote: post #13

It's easy to underestimate how hard and expensive it is to build, deploy, and remotely upgrade software that runs reliably on a fleet of diverse cars (different models, different years, slightly different components from batch to batch, etc.). It makes updating a mobile phone OS look trivial in comparison. So far, only Tesla seems to be able to update car software remotely, regularly and reliably. I'm certain it's ne…

> All things considered, physical buttons and dials are probably easier and cheaper, because they don't require software updates! I am pretty sure there is a market for a dumb modern car, but no one is building it. I am thinking of an electric car without anything "smart" in it. Modern safety features can stay, if they work completely self contained and without requiring an external connection ever over the lifespan…

Regulatory pressure may well get you to do stuff you wouldn't want to do.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#319

Post by jacquesm »

willio58 wrote: post #32
wil421 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So far, only Tesla seems to be able to update car software remotely, regularly and reliably. I'm certain it's neither easy nor cheap. My Jeep Grand Cherokee has OTA for over 5+ years. BMW has been doing it since 2018. I’m almost positive a family member had it with GMC on star back in the late 2000s.

I don't think the Jeep or BMW infotainment systems are nearly as fleshed out or complex as Rivian's, especially not Tesla's. Maybe I'm wrong!

BMW in particular is an interesting case, a (late) friend of mine drove just about every model the day after it came out (BMW fan) and they spent more time in the shop for software issues than they did driving. To the point that he'd get attached to some of the loaners, it really was that bad.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#320

Post by thumbsup-_- »

This is the new world we will be living in where you enter your car, only to find that something is broken because of OTA. While updates causing some bugs is ok in my phone but I don't want any bugs in my car. What happens if it messes up with safety systems? or what happens if OTA breaks my car that is out of warranty now? May be I'm the only one that is missing stable software in cars that once vetted, just keeps running as-is if nothing around it is ever changed (ideal scenario for an offline car).
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