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Plastics are poisoning us

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Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#311

Post by Tagbert »

Oleksa_dr wrote: post #285

It all depends on global and legislative initiatives. Only restrictions on the production of plastic and cardboard (!!!) work. Personal initiatives are just romanticization and a philosophy that shifts the problem from the producer to the consumer (who has no choice). Metal is an alternative to many things. Plastic is only for containers and things with a long cycle of use. It has its advantages. It is more resistant…

Why do you want to restrict cardboard production? It is one of the best alternatives to plastic for many purposes.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#312

Post by hombre_fatal »

elric wrote: post #132
abwizz wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i like to walk barefeet, so i worry about glass pollution all the time

Presumably, you have eyes, and can easily avoid glass pollution. That's what I do when I go around barefoot. I've stepped in/on all kinds of nasty shit, but never on anything sharp. If you don't have functioning eyes, I apologize, and imagine being blind and barefoot is a tricky combination.

Man, we’ve got to chill with the condescension on here (often guilty of it myself because I too am a stinker). Every time I’ve stepped on glass, it was a tiny sliver I couldn’t see which is why I stepped on it.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#313

Post by monktastic1 »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #286
monktastic1 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two possibilities for each human to try: 1. Pour all your effort into becoming a kinder, wiser human, and watch as it rubs off on the people around you in surprising and far-ranging ways, amplifying itself into the world through "network effects." Allow this to become a virtuous cycle. 2. Become cynical and bitter, and watch the opposite happen. In either case, the world will present you with all the eviden…

Insurrection or revolution doesn’t fit either of those options you gave

You can insurrect or revolt from either of those two conditions. My experience (not with country-scale insurrection, of course...) is that the results will be drastically different. These aren't things you do instead of acting, but attitudes and habits you develop through all action.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#314

Post by peanuty1 »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #308

Realize we literally cannot stop making plastic. If we did, modern civilization would collapse. All PCBs and electric devices have some type of plastic in them, including wires and plugs. The only way to read this comment is via plastic.

We could make a lot less without collapsing modern civilization though.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#315

Post by tfourb »

simiones wrote: post #152
tfourb wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not pay people per kg to return plastics. We have a scheme in Germany where you get something like 30 cents per glass bottle that you return. Even people who don't care about this small sum leave their beer bottles in a convenient place for others to pick up as a result. Mandating a non-trivial payment per kg of plastics would create the incentives for people to not only throw stuff in the bin if they find it con…

Collect it for what? Glass is somewhat easily recyclable, most plastics are not. Even if it's collected with utmost care, it will be taken to a landfill, or "sent to China for recycling" (spilled in the ocean) or burned in a power plant - none of which is that great. Conversely, if it's thrown in the regular trash, it will probably end up in a landfill, which is probably right now the best solution for it.

This topic is about plastics getting into the environment in an uncontrolled manner being a huge problem. The first step to do something about this would be to make sure that you collect as much of the plastic currently in circulation as possible. Offering a financial reward for collection would be one way to achieve that.

If recycling is not an option, burning would at least solve the problem of microplastics, if a complete burn of these materials can be achieved. Controlled storage in a landfill would be another option, until there are better solutions to handle this type of trash.

My point was that there are some policy options to approach this problem and "all is lost" neither a constructive, nor factually correct point of view.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#316

Post by mercacona »

joveian wrote: post #283
aziaziazi wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. Walking. A bit less minimalistic: ride your (non e-) bike, scooter, skateboard, kayak, sled, basically anything non motorized. Use best tire quality so you don’t change then often. A bite more minimalistic: prefer walking barefoot anytime you can. Shoes are tire that wear out. King of related: still looking for shoe/soles that last. My grand mother used to wear wood clogs, not sure where to find some that fits me.

For shoes, due to my health they get limited use and I can't really tell how durable they are but my first pair of Ahinsa shoes has lasted a couple of years without much wear. Not minimal in that they use high-tech ingredients (and are made on the other side of the world from me :/ ) but very nice shoes that seem likely to be reasonably durable (the thin sole takes some adjustment if you aren't used to it) and are pr…

Gobi boots from VivoBarefoot are my favorite. Re-used ones are available at revivo.com, and I've worn each pair continuously for 3 years: working, hiking, sun, rain, etc.

I have a pair of ENIX Sandals I bought 6 years ago that I wear when it's really hot. They're also great.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#317

Post by rTX5CMRXIfFG »

gene-h wrote: post #244
rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually read the article before commenting: > The hazards of ingesting large pieces of plastic are pretty straightforward; they include choking and perforation of the intestinal tract. Animals that fill their guts with plastics eventually starve to death. The risks posed by microplastics are subtler, but not, Simon argues, any less serious. Plastics are made from by-products of oil and gas refining; many of t…

>Plastics are made from by-products of oil and gas refining; many of the chemicals involved, such as benzene and vinyl chloride, are carcinogens. This is like arguing that table salt is dangerous because one of the chemicals involved, chlorine, is a chemical warfare agent. Despite the title of the article, they don't provide much evidence of plastic actually poisoning people outside of plastic recyclers and textile w…

Chlorine is a basic chemical element and benzene and vinyl chloride are compounds. You made a counter-argument so devoid of intellectual rigor that your examples do not even compare.

Also, what are you saying that there’s no evidence? Even if it’s not in the article (which is an opinion piece, not a scientific journal), then you should have had the diligence to look up the claims before taking a stance? Plenty of objective sources cited in their Wikipedia articles alone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_chloride

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#318

Post by xhkkffbf »

hospitalJail wrote: post #133

The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…

A good point. Starches produced by plants are also long chains of sugars. Are they "plastic" too?

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#319

Post by mistrial9 »

hejcloud wrote: post #309

In Germany, they introduced a system called "Grüner Punkt" (~green dot) in the 90s which was supposed to teach consumers how to separate different kinds of trash to be able to recycle the packaging plastic. Now about 30 years later, the Germans are eager to sort their trash but the recycling quote is still laughably low. Less than 20% of sorted trash gets recycled for usage in plastic (and instead just burned, reusin…

GreenDot implementation as a business case for recycling economics was examined here in California when the Electronics Recycling was in formation. There were some structural problems with the way that money moved through the system, the product categories, the marking system and the handling systems. Improvements are possible, and the obstacles in the GreenDot system are real.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Electronic_Waste_Re...

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#320

Post by tfourb »

luxuryballs wrote: post #202
tfourb wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it is "too late" for this generation or the next generation or the next 5 generations that is not a reason to simply don't care and continue to make the problem worse. That is the kind of attitude that kept us from doing anything against climate change when it still was cheap to do so (just 15 years ago). I really wish people would start seeing these problems as a positive challenge that can help transform so…

climate change can’t be prevented, it’s a natural oscillating cycle on a grand scale, but not making plastic is totally on us, though perhaps we will all freeze or boil long before drowning the ecosystem in plastic, there is some real bitter irony in being hopeful that nature can take us out before we do even more harm, if it can’t then I guess Earth will have proven itself not so resilient, but I suspect on a long e…

Man made (hint hint) climate change was first described more than 50 years ago and while the window of cheap opportunity arguably has closed by now, it could easily have been addressed without too much cost up until about the year 2000 or so and somewhat cheaply until about 2010. Most countries are now making concerted efforts to address it but now it costs a huge amount of money and we will experience some severe consequences nonetheless. Still better than doing nothing, which could render huge swathes of the globe uninhabitable for humans.

I'm not really worried about "the earth." The planet and nature will continue to exist and even if we fuck up the ecosystem we are dependent on and billions will die as a consequence, "nature" will simply continue to exist. Pretty insects and rainforests don't have an intrinsic value to me but I care about them deeply as the basis for human existence and prosperity.

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