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Plastics are poisoning us

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Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#241

Post by aziaziazi »

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #180
myshpa wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The population growth trend is already declining in many (western) countries and is projected to go down in a few decades max everywhere. Best contraceptive is education, prosperity and urbanization. IMHO the best way to limit our negative impacts is - stop exploiting other countries (there are almost no poor countries, only overexploited ones) - urbanization ( https://i.redd.it/fl28yusb1r5b1.jpg ) - abandoning fossi…

Good luck trying to convince Russia or China to stop exploiting other countries, abandon fossil fuels or stop animal agriculture. Here is the unsolvable problem of the climate activism. They can't save the climate, but they are capable of destroying their own homeland, playing right into the hands of those authoritarian monsters.

Well then you didn’t understand the point of climate activism. It’s not about “saving the climate” but instead “keeping our home habitability”. You can choose to:

- keep packing more fellow on your homeland, our children with them. Don’t change anything but wish them good luck, the Science and Industry will solve everything as it always did anyway, right ? Guess what, it won’t make the two giants stop being authoritarian.

- not doing (much) more children in your homeland so no descents will suffer from the density. The “authoritarians monsters” will probably profit of that.

Do you really value democracy and freedom (I value it a lot, me too) so much that you continue gambling with descents’s home habitability?

It’s not about giving up but about recognizing that adding more soldiers won’t stop the war.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#242

Post by literalAardvark »

shortcake27 wrote: post #115
realshadow wrote: post #11

I became a minimist to save the planet as much as i could. Its easier than any one could think you know. Here is what i have been doing for a decade and would receommend 1. Reusing plastic bags (i love cotton bags but not ideal). Fold and keep one or two in your pocket before you leave home 2. Support and use light software so you dont need to upgrade your gadgets (12y laptop i use) 3. Prepare and eat home cooked mea…

I’ve had a lot of water bottles over the years. This is quite an unpopular take, but I believe PET to be lesser of all evils. I’ve spent a lot of money on numerous steel and plastic water bottles. They all break and good luck recycling them. Most likely they end up in landfill. PET bottles use less raw resources, are cheap, lightweight, extremely durable, and when they reach end of life they’re easier to “recycle” (d…

Steel is mostly recycled. Pet is very much not. Pet does leach (as microplastic). No point in buying plastic bottles unless they're pla. Just reuse a water/soda bottle you bought on a whim.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#244

Post by gene-h »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #92
GuB-42 wrote: post #89

Considering how ubiquitous plastics are, they look rather harmless to me. We are wasting hundreds of millions of tons per year, we eat it, drink it, we have been doing that for decades and we are still discussing statistical signifiance. Sure, not completely harmless, but few things are. And considering the tremendous value plastics have brought to society, I'd say the downsides are comparatively small. What worries…

If you actually read the article before commenting: > The hazards of ingesting large pieces of plastic are pretty straightforward; they include choking and perforation of the intestinal tract. Animals that fill their guts with plastics eventually starve to death. The risks posed by microplastics are subtler, but not, Simon argues, any less serious. Plastics are made from by-products of oil and gas refining; many of t…

>Plastics are made from by-products of oil and gas refining; many of the chemicals involved, such as benzene and vinyl chloride, are carcinogens. This is like arguing that table salt is dangerous because one of the chemicals involved, chlorine, is a chemical warfare agent. Despite the title of the article, they don't provide much evidence of plastic actually poisoning people outside of plastic recyclers and textile workers.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#245

Post by aceazzameen »

Personally I think there needs to be more studies on all the plastics shedding from clothing. Maybe there is? But I usually see the focus on ingestion. We all inhale plastic microfibers every day. Is it worse then ingestion? Is it mostly inert? Or are we slowly degrading certain functions in our bodies?

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#246

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

Retric wrote: post #143
hospitalJail wrote: post #133

The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…

Teflon Aka Polytetrafluoroethylene cookware represents a health hazard. The stuff contains a great deal of Florine and breaks down at 300C, but that’s not purely binary instead it becomes increasingly unstable as your approach the temperature. Further no manufacturing process is perfect, I wouldn’t therefore assume eating significant quantities would be safe. That said, it’s generally used as a coating rather than a…

I'd have thought that fluorine, like oxygen, is a strong oxidizer (fluorine being even stronger), and so fluorides, like oxides (e.g. rust) would be extremely stable, among the most stable compounds possible. Unless I'm forgetting the other side: Maybe the other half of the compound is not a strong enough reducer? It's a hydrocarbon though, it burns well in oxygen...

That said, even oxides do break down when heated. Like, that's what smelting is...

Hm...

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#247

Post by akvadrako »

yadingus wrote: post #194
iso1631 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's microplastics which are now absolutely everywhere. Apparently we consume a credit card's worth of plastic per month. Nobody should feel ok about consuming a drink that's got a ground up credit card in it, yet that's what we're doing. And what's the effect? We've been doing this for decades?

I think you severely underestimate not only how long effects can take to show, but how long and complicated it can be to fund good long term scientific studies. There's this belief that if something has an effect, it'll just show up magically on the news after the minimum amount of time, without taking into account all the hurdles people have to go through to research. Even if you didn't have powerful companies with…

If it takes that long we'll all be dead before the effects show up.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#248

Post by droopyEyelids »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #212
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know PLA is safe? I'm sure you would have thought lead was safe at the time

PLA - poly(lactic acid) - is biocompatible to the point that it is used in medical implants. It breaks down into lactic acid , which the body produces itself during exercise and can safely metabolize. Breathing smoke and dust from PLA is bad, because breathing any type of smoke or dust is bad. Wildfire smoke is bad, but wood is not a harmful chemical. We actually do understand the chemistry of plastics. And to a very…

What plasticizers, chain extenders, flame retardants, fillers, stabilizers, colorants, reinforcements, blowing agents, antistatic agents, and lubricants are used with PLA?

I'm not asking to play 'gotcha' with your comment, but because when I've attempted to do my own research on this, I find it easy to get information on the polymer itself, but the polymer is never used by itself in a product. As far as I can tell, most polymers are not actually useful without a cocktail of additional chemicals added to them to change their physical characteristics. From my research, raw polymers tend to be extremely brittle and frangible, completely unrecognizable when compared to the products we use made from them.

And those additional chemicals are extremely difficult to find information on. Like when they're used, what they are, etc.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#249

Post by rngname22 »

oezi wrote: post #198
Retric wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teflon Aka Polytetrafluoroethylene cookware represents a health hazard. The stuff contains a great deal of Florine and breaks down at 300C, but that’s not purely binary instead it becomes increasingly unstable as your approach the temperature. Further no manufacturing process is perfect, I wouldn’t therefore assume eating significant quantities would be safe. That said, it’s generally used as a coating rather than a…

I understand that Teflon might be a hazard in pans but feel like it reduces the amount of burned food in contrast to steel/iron pans so much for me that I hope it is a net gain. (sorry in advance for all who want to suggest iron skillets. I can't make them work in daily use.)

This is a bit like saying asbestos may be a hazard in walls but I just can't seem to get the knack for not lighting my house on fire :(

I say that partially as a joke but also it does sort of sound a bit absurd, in the sense that your cooking techniques are just sort of wrong if you are repeatedly burning food to your non-non-stick pan. You need an oil or fat on your pan to provide a buffer or to bathe the food in liquid.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#250

Post by jimmychoozyx »

hospitalJail wrote: post #133

The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…

"The word 'Plastic' needs to die." ... "its terrible to stereotype them all into one category."

I disagree, because, that's like me telling you "The word 'Cancer' needs to die." etc.

That would imply you'd be required to tell me the specific cancer you refer to when you say "you aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon" etc.

General terms exist for a reason.

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