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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#311

Post by otherme123 »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #274
4gotunameagain wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sailor, looking towards the back of the boat: - There's an incoming boat ! - From where ? - From the left ! Is it the left of the sailor, or is it the left of the vessel ?

You only know which side is port or starboard by figuring out your orientation compared to the ship and picking the left side of the ship. So it’s not actually achieving anything. You could just say left always refers to the ship’s left.

You still use left and right on board, but referring to other things. E.g. you sit on the left side of the table, and by using "left" it's clear that your reference is the table itself and not the ship.

What you achieve is a new set of coordinates relative to the vessel. You are going north, sitting on the port, with a glass of wine in your right hand, instead of going up and sitting on the left.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#312

Post by Digit-Al »

carlmr wrote: post #278
PJ_Maybe wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One I like is the phrase "the tell-tale signs", which refers to a sailing boat's tell-tales. These are small strings attached to the sails to indicate if the sail needs to be trimmed for optimal performance.

I always just imagined that it was signs that tell a tale. And the online etymology dictionary seems to confirm that. https://www.etymonline.com/word/telltale >also tell-tale, "discloser of secrets," 1540s, from tell (v.) + tale. As an adjective from 1590s. Phrase tell a tale "relate a false or exaggerated story" is from late 13c. Is it maybe that the nautical term comes from plain English?

Quite a lot of folk etymology tries to, incorrectly, assign nautical origins to common words and phrases. I used to read a column by an etymologist that jokingly referred to this using the term CANOE - the Committee to Assign a Nautical Origin to Everything :-)

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#313

Post by heikkilevanto »

bergie wrote: post #279
Zironic wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule of thumb I go for with boats is that the vessel with worse steering has right of way. For instance a freighter has right of way over a sailing boat regardless of direction or wind because the freighter isn't going to be able to change course in any appreciable amount of time.

Freighters have right of way in constrained waters, but offshore they still need to make way for sailboats. (Yes, I know colregs is a bit more nuanced than that, but I think this is a decent approximation)

Plastic boats give way to wooden ship, wooden ships give way to metal ships, and nothing gives way anything much smaller than itself - Not the colreg rules, but a good approximation for unskilled crew members. Especially on a wooden ship.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#314

Post by socialdemocrat »

HideousKojima wrote: post #176
yafbum wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the US and other places that have a grid system as their main road planning principle and route naming principle? In Europe, where roads tend to follow the terrain more, I've not really heard this.

The US doesn't really have a (consistent) grid system outside of cities, with the notable exception of Utah (due to planning efforts by the Mormon pioneers). And even in cities it can be a mess. For example Seattle grew from three different smaller areas that all planned their roads to be parallel to the coast. The problem is the coast isn't in a straight line so as they grew and combined into a single city it create…

You can just look at a map over the US and see quickly how the grid pattern exists at almost any zoom level. You also notice it in how people think about directions. As a European I found it tricky to deal with but I saw the opposite when Americans drive in Europe. They really struggle with a system not built around thinking east-west and north-south.

I think generally in Europe people think in terms of landmarks rather than fixed directions.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#315

Post by bouvin »

nicky0 wrote: post #231
walthamstow wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples? I am English but I know nothing about the maritime world, so I likely know the words as slang/vernacular terms but not what they mean on a ship.

Have a read (or listen to the brilliantly read audiobook) of Master and Commander, and the subsequent series of novels by Patrick O'Brien. Apart from being entertaining historical novels, you learn a lot about naval life and terminology. Reading them I am struck by just how much nautical lingo made its way into common English usage.

Having read the _excellent_ series in English, it was amusing for me to see the movie in a Danish cinema, where the incomprehensible English maritime jargon was translated to incomprehensible Danish maritime jargon.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#316

Post by somenameforme »

There's kind of a fun brain teaser related to this. Imagine you're speaking to an entirely alien species in another dimension. And you're trying to describe "left" to them. It's impossible.

I say it's a brain teaser only because this sounds highly improbable at first. Forwards and backwards can be described, and even up/down if we assume basic fundamental rules remain the same. Yet left and right? It seems impossible for it to be impossible.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#317

Post by Dobbs »

walthamstow wrote: post #207
petersellers wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also pretty cool that a ton of sailing vocabulary has made its way into common English vernacular. I guess with the UK being the most powerful country in the world at one time (and projecting their power via their Navy) it's not too surprising.

What are some examples? I am English but I know nothing about the maritime world, so I likely know the words as slang/vernacular terms but not what they mean on a ship.

Leeway is another common one.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#318

Post by junon »

somenameforme wrote: post #316

There's kind of a fun brain teaser related to this. Imagine you're speaking to an entirely alien species in another dimension. And you're trying to describe "left" to them. It's impossible. I say it's a brain teaser only because this sounds highly improbable at first. Forwards and backwards can be described, and even up/down if we assume basic fundamental rules remain the same. Yet left and right? It seems impossible…

Not sure I understand. Directions are relative. I'd describe "left" how I describe every other direction.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#319

Post by philipwhiuk »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #200
fargle wrote: post #135

When I was a kid in Minnesota we needed to learn port/starboard and the colors red/green. A trick that helped me remember is that "LEFT", "PORT", and "RED" are all the shorter words and "RIGHT", "STARBOARD", and "GREEN" are the longer words in the respective pairs. FWIW.

This would probably throw my girlfriend off. She has some kind of right/left dyslexia. When she's driving and I'm giving directions I have to tell her "short turn" or "long turn". Long turn being left, longer because it's across a lane, right turns are shorter. But if someone told her that left is shorter than right for remembering purposes, it would probably mess her up more when following driving directions.

Fun times ahead if you do international driving :)

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#320

Post by aequitas »

nicky0 wrote: post #231
walthamstow wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples? I am English but I know nothing about the maritime world, so I likely know the words as slang/vernacular terms but not what they mean on a ship.

Have a read (or listen to the brilliantly read audiobook) of Master and Commander, and the subsequent series of novels by Patrick O'Brien. Apart from being entertaining historical novels, you learn a lot about naval life and terminology. Reading them I am struck by just how much nautical lingo made its way into common English usage.

I'd also recommend watching The Terror (season 1) and play Return of the Obra Dinn. Though both contain fantasy elements, there's lots of nautical lore to be found.
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