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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#271

Post by midasuni »

jdietrich wrote: post #130
abhibeckert wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical school is that left/right always refer to the patient's perspective In (musical) theatre we do it the other way around. The we call it "stage left" and "stage right" or "SL and SR" since we use abbreviations everywhere in our notes. It's always from the "stage manager's perspective" which is traditionally (but not always…

In the automotive trade, a vehicle has a "driver's side" and "passenger side". This only partly solves the ambiguity, because of course some countries drive on the left.

Near side and off side

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#272

Post by [deleted] »

Steve44 wrote: post #265
jdietrich wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the automotive trade, a vehicle has a "driver's side" and "passenger side". This only partly solves the ambiguity, because of course some countries drive on the left.

In the UK I was taught off-side and near side which referred to the sides nearest and away from the kerb as you are driving. That would be localised to which side of the road your location drives on, but not affected by left or right hand drive. I still use is when checking tyre pressures for example, they are handy and unambiguous acronyms. For example Off Side Front ( OSF ) would be the drivers side front mostly.

[deleted]

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#273

Post by midasuni »

manarth wrote: post #252
yafbum wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In medicine there is one obviously very important perspective, and in theatre two. But mariners still need words for relative left and right directions all around them, like "the preferred channel is to the left of the buoy" (the channel and the buoy don't have port or starboard sides, and it wouldn't be useful to communicate about their relative angle as seen by the boat's crew).

> the channel and the buoy don't have port or starboard sides In the context of a channel, the buoys (marks) are coded port and starboard, coloured red and green, and shaped like a can or a cone respectively. When navigating a channel into harbour, the port marks are left to the port of the ship, and the starboard marks to starboard.

Red right returning

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#274

Post by MagicMoonlight »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #236
serial_dev wrote: post #233

I wish they gave or examples as to why simple left and right would be confusing, and how port and starboard are different and better. Maybe because I'm from a landlocked country, but this article didn't help me understand the why .

A sailor, looking towards the back of the boat: - There's an incoming boat ! - From where ? - From the left ! Is it the left of the sailor, or is it the left of the vessel ?

You only know which side is port or starboard by figuring out your orientation compared to the ship and picking the left side of the ship.

So it’s not actually achieving anything. You could just say left always refers to the ship’s left.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#276

Post by Someone »

dotancohen wrote: post #224
azepoi wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In french theatre has specific words for left and right. Côté cour et Côté jardin. Courtside and garden side. In geography left and right banks of a river are always in the direction of the flow

> In geography left and right banks of a river are always in the direction of the flow Isn't there some river where the flow goes either way depending on tide? I'm thinking it might be in Alaska, but there might be more than one.

Tides coming in is normal, but there are rivers that change direction for other reasons. The Chicago River and the Mississippi can change direction due to storm surges, for example (for the Chicago River, that temporarily returns it to its flow direction, into Lake Michigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_River#Course))

A better example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonl%C3%A9_Sap#Geography:

“As the monsoon rain begins, the water level of the river begins to rise. As the water level continues to rise, the flow of the river reverses. The water level of the Tonlé Sap increases by about 10 metres (33 ft), the flow of the Mekong gradually decreases at the end of the rainy season, and the flow of the Tonlé Sap then reverses and began to replenish the flow of the Mekong.”

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#277

Post by rantallion »

dotancohen wrote: post #222
omegabravo wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the term "left hand down", aka turn left but much more explicit.

Why not simply "counterclockwise"?

Depends. Are you referring to the rotation of the wheel or of the car? While I've never heard it used before, the post to which you're replying avoids that ambiguity.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#278

Post by carlmr »

PJ_Maybe wrote: post #250
walthamstow wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples? I am English but I know nothing about the maritime world, so I likely know the words as slang/vernacular terms but not what they mean on a ship.

One I like is the phrase "the tell-tale signs", which refers to a sailing boat's tell-tales. These are small strings attached to the sails to indicate if the sail needs to be trimmed for optimal performance.

I always just imagined that it was signs that tell a tale. And the online etymology dictionary seems to confirm that.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/telltale

>also tell-tale, "discloser of secrets," 1540s, from tell (v.) + tale. As an adjective from 1590s. Phrase tell a tale "relate a false or exaggerated story" is from late 13c.

Is it maybe that the nautical term comes from plain English?

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#279

Post by bergie »

Zironic wrote: post #230
bergie wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only applies between power boats. Between sailboats the direction of wind is what determines the right of way. And of course power boats must give way to sailing vessels.

The rule of thumb I go for with boats is that the vessel with worse steering has right of way. For instance a freighter has right of way over a sailing boat regardless of direction or wind because the freighter isn't going to be able to change course in any appreciable amount of time.

Freighters have right of way in constrained waters, but offshore they still need to make way for sailboats.

(Yes, I know colregs is a bit more nuanced than that, but I think this is a decent approximation)

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#280

Post by bacon_waffle »

tim_hutton wrote: post #28

The only was I can remember which is port and starboard is by thinking about boarding an airplane. The steps/tunnel are always docked on the 'port' side, just as boats always dock on the port side. The cockpit/bow is always on your left when you board.

That'll trip you up if you ever board Tally Ho, her front door is on the starboard[0].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpulXX1cros

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