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French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

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Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#311

Post by retinaros »

capitalsigma wrote: post #268
retinaros wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are enough. there are using statistical models to predict that we wont have enough in the coming decades. a biased model that is financed by private pension funds and led by mckinsey… I have a very simple way to make enough funds to maintain current retirement age : increase our salaries. france income per capita is the same for the past 20 years, if you raise salaries it will raise how much money goes to pensi…

Increasing salaries will increase the cost of goods and services, meaning that more savings are required. It doesn't necessarily balance.

your made in china tv or your fruits or even cars made in morroco will be greatly impacted by a raise in french salaries. butter in france rised 50% thanks to energy war. one can argue raising salaries will never reach that level of crazy.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#312

Post by jackvalentine »

BadCookie wrote: post #253

These stats are for the U.S., but one thing that usually get ignored in these retirement discussions is just how massively life expectancy depends on income level and sex: http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/health/ Raising the retirement pension age screws over the poor, especially poor men. Perhaps retirement age should be tied to income/wealth somehow ... and maybe even sex (as controversial as I imagine that w…

An aboriginal man in Australia is suing on exactly that basis - he has a lower life expectancy and so wants access to the pension earlier.

https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/uncle-dennis-is-taking-t...

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#313

Post by CamperBob2 »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #304

In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…

As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with a more people who are purely consumers, but contribute nothing to the system.

Also interesting that the inflationary effect of this phenomenon is starting to be recognized. A large fraction of the population has nothing to do but sit around spending money. I'd never considered this point before now, but hopefully the Fed takes it into account when they decide how much to hose the rest of us with high interest rates (which the Boomers also DGAF about.)

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#314

Post by avgcorrection »

vkou wrote: post #241
retinaros wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the system IS sustained. the main white collar one even generates profits. increase the salaries that will increase money being sent to retirement funds and it won’t be a problem anymore. france income per capita has been the same for the past 20 years. they are stealing our wages to make us slaves and they blame us for not working enough. christine lagarde pushed for blocking wage rise in the EU, european commission…

> and in a globalised world where most of the goods are made in countries where salaries are rising as well as inflation, blocking our wages is only sending us to the third world . Just throwing this out here, but in a globalized world, by what mechanism would one expect Europeans and Americans will be able to enjoy a greater standard of living than people in, say, Asia? Are they somehow smarter? More productive? In…

Such “normalization” would then also, presumably, apply to the rich. Unless one thinks that a billionaire who makes ten million USD a day is ten thousand times more productive than even a very high-earning wage worker.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#315

Post by h0l0cube »

notch898a wrote: post #290
AussieWog93 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's basically the system we started rolling out in Australia in the 90s (see mandatory super). Unfortunately it doesn't work for everyone, though, and a traditional pension is still needed as a backup.

It seems like unfortunately many governments have proven incapable of responsibly handling the money. In the case the government is entirely incapable of handling the money I'd at least see the worker get that tax waved to have something for whatever meager existence is left with the money.

> unfortunately many governments have proven incapable of responsibly handling the money

The system that GP described forces people to put their money into superannuation funds (not government) that invest on their behalf, which I'd say is pretty competent government policy. For the most part it works well, but it does distort the market (e.g., super funds buy housing stock, old people have more money available to them), and not everyone can contribute enough before retirement age. The counterfactual would be a whole lot of people that have spent all their savings by retirement age.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#316

Post by yodsanklai »

Jyaif wrote: post #269
yodsanklai wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France isn't 62, it is (according to your link) > 62 to 67: Depends on the duration of contribution (minimum 43 years) For instance, for me it will be 67. Besides, these numbers don't mean anything without context.

Only just realised it will be 67 for me as well. In a way that's great news: I won't feel bad taking a sabbatical. Unless the limit is raised of course.

> I won't feel bad taking a sabbatical

It's not that easy unfortunately ;)

If you have less than 43 years, the amount of your pension will be decreased according to some formula. At 67, you'll get the full pension no matter what. But this amount is also determined by the number of years you worked. So if you take a sabbatical, or go work abroad for a few years, you won't get the full amount.

I recommend that you do a simulation of what your retirement will be. I think it's something like 50% of your 25 best years, if you worked 43 years. Then it depends what you invested outside of the system.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#317

Post by JKCalhoun »

notch898a wrote: post #290
AussieWog93 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's basically the system we started rolling out in Australia in the 90s (see mandatory super). Unfortunately it doesn't work for everyone, though, and a traditional pension is still needed as a backup.

It seems like unfortunately many governments have proven incapable of responsibly handling the money. In the case the government is entirely incapable of handling the money I'd at least see the worker get that tax waved to have something for whatever meager existence is left with the money.

I don't follow how Social Security in the U.S. is tied to how responsible or otherwise the government is. It is paid into by the current workers and is a mandatory spending item in the U.S. budget.

Maybe you were referring to another country though.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#318

Post by oblio »

Izikiel43 wrote: post #215
olddustytrail wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some bad news for you then: many of the companies that provide 401(k) were on the verge of collapse in 2008. The only reason people didn't lose their pensions entirely was because the government bailed them out... You can always lose your money. Best to accept that and not worry too much.

> many of the companies that provide 401(k) were on the verge of collapse in 2008. The stock market went to shit, not the providers. The 401k appeal is that it's an account you *own* and the government can't touch for money, it would be the same as expropriating a bank account, which to be fair, the Argentinian goverment kind of did in 2001, hence why since then, people there save money in usd cash or in a foreign ac…

Ask Cypriots about bank account haircuts :-)

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#319

Post by oblio »

eniotna wrote: post #113
Izikiel43 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After seeing the pensioners in my home country living in poverty because of economic crisis destroying their pensions, the government using pension money as if it was its own, and being actively hostile to pensioners by delaying trials to pay the pension money fairly waiting for them to die, I will take a 401(k) over that always, my money is mine and no one else's.

Money is never truly yours if you are not the issuer. That's why we need more "hard" money (gold, bitcoin).

Bitcoin is hard money? If it is, so is silly putty :-)))

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#320

Post by avgcorrection »

supernova87a wrote: post #156

One big challenge I see with the whole business about pension reform (and government spending in fact) as a public debate is that two sides are talking on totally different planes. In France, and someday very soon, here in the US. And the public in a certain sense, will problematically have to end up voting a simple yes/no on extremely complex topics which are incentivized to push buttons on single issues. cf. Brexit…

What’s your annual income?
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